|  Author | Topic: Forward Progress and Out of Bounds (Read 169 times) |
neil
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|  | Forward Progress and Out of Bounds
« Thread Started on Nov 5, 2009, 11:47am » | |
I have noticed this year that officials are more and more keeping the clock running when players are knocked out of bounds.
The justification is that forward momentum has stopped in bounds and therefor it is as if the ball carrier was tackled in bounds.
I have not noticed this call being made in the past. Is this a new point of emphasis.
Is it a trickle down effect from NFL---NCAA--High School to "speed up the game?"
It has been explained to me that if a player is moving perpendicular to the sideline (or not forward) when he goes out of bounds that the clock should keep running.
For an example a WR catches a ball near the sideline on a comeback route in a 2-minute situation. The Defender playing deeper than the WR is moving in a direction towards the line of scrimmage and hits the WR just as he makes the catch keeping keeping his feet in bounds.
Because the WR is moving back to the LOS to catch the ball and is immediately hit by the defender he never has forward momentum after possession and goes out of bounds with out taking a step.
According to what officials are ruling now the clock would continue to run.
Is this the right interpretation of forward progress being stopped?
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trek23300
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| | Re: Forward Progress and Out of Bounds
« Reply #1 on Nov 5, 2009, 12:20pm » | |
I don't know why you think it's a recent event. It's the way it's always been called.
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I'm just a stupid official! |
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coachdoug
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| | Re: Forward Progress and Out of Bounds
« Reply #2 on Nov 5, 2009, 1:02pm » | |
Yes, that is correct - if the ball carrier is not moving forward when he crosses the sideline, then his forward progress (and the play) stopped in bounds and the clock should continue to run (unless the runner goes out on his own without being touched by a defender). What gets me upset is when officials keep the clock running in our games (Jr High level) just because the ball carrier got touched in bounds - I've even had officials tell me that if the defender makes contact inbounds then they keep the clock running (I guess they just figured we wouldn't know the rule). In that situation it's pretty clearly just lazy refs trying to shorten the game so they can get home earlier.
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neil
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| | Re: Forward Progress and Out of Bounds
« Reply #3 on Nov 5, 2009, 1:12pm » | |
Nov 5, 2009, 12:20pm, trek23300 wrote:| I don't know why you think it's a recent event. It's the way it's always been called. |
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I'm by no means an old veteran. But have been coaching long enough to have noticed an increased emphasis on these situations.
Coach Doug's post is dead-on. Watching our 9th grade team play the other night the "white hat" was a veteran and the new guys are on the sidelines. You could see that he was instructing them to keep the clock running when contact was made in-bounds. He is teaching them the wrong thing.
I spoke with the referee at half-time and explained to him that he was not welcome back to our school to call 9th grade/JV games anymore if he was in that big of a hurry.
These kids play 8-minute quarters! We don't need to speed up the game for them. They need to play!
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coachdoug
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| | Re: Forward Progress and Out of Bounds
« Reply #4 on Nov 5, 2009, 2:38pm » | |
While that may be technically accurate, Bob, it is NEVER called that way. Just like when a player when a ball carrier is driven backwards on a tackle, they always go back to most forward point to establish forward progress, even though they would allow the play to continue if the runner broke free (at least early on while being driven backwards). If contact was made inbounds and the ball carrier was going laterally or backwards, then they are typically going to continue running the clock every time.
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k
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| | Re: Forward Progress and Out of Bounds
« Reply #5 on Nov 7, 2009, 7:30pm » | |
Nov 5, 2009, 2:38pm, coachdoug wrote:While that may be technically accurate, Bob, it is NEVER called that way. Just like when a player when a ball carrier is driven backwards on a tackle, they always go back to most forward point to establish forward progress, even though they would allow the play to continue if the runner broke free (at least early on while being driven backwards). If contact was made inbounds and the ball carrier was going laterally or backwards, then they are typically going to continue running the clock every time.
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Saw a game today (scouting both teams for playoffs) where one team would get the forward most point while the other would get the furthest point back before the whistle. We started counting yards after the second ridiculous spot and we counted over a hundred yards of BS spots against a team in a single game. Not to mention the head ref overturning all calls that went against one of the teams. Sometimes a shake my head and wonder if ya'll put money on these games... =)
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ppaltice
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| | Re: Forward Progress and Out of Bounds
« Reply #6 on Nov 9, 2009, 11:47am » | |
Nov 5, 2009, 11:47am, neil wrote:For an example a WR catches a ball near the sideline on a comeback route in a 2-minute situation. The Defender playing deeper than the WR is moving in a direction towards the line of scrimmage and hits the WR just as he makes the catch keeping keeping his feet in bounds.
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If we move this play from the sideline and have the WR on a comeback possess the ball in air and the defender push him back, the officials are going to give him forward progress from 2-15-2. Forward progress is the furthest point of advancement if contacted by a defender. You cannot pick and choose when to have the forward progress and when not to have it.
So, in your case even if the receiver wanted to catch the ball and run out of bounds, because he was contacted by a defender and his forward progress (as defined by 2-15-2) was stopped in bounds, the clock should continue to run.
I feel for you though when officials worry more about getting out of a game then about calling the game. It sounds like the referee was not giving his young officials the best advice. I think it is an atrocity when I hear "It is just a JV game", etc, and I do hear it. I would if I were you ask to address the officials in a meeting and voice your concerns objectively. I think sometimes officials need to appreciate that even though it is "just a JV game" for them, it is very important to all the players, coaches, and fans that are at the stadium. The heat of the contest is probably not the best place to bring this up, though.
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