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Post by nltdiego on Feb 22, 2015 21:42:17 GMT -6
CA state laws are forbidding contact in summer and only twice per week (90 minutes) in season. I went to a "practice like a pro" clinic a few weeks back to hear what other programs are doing. The HC at Dartmouth has not tackled to ground at a practice in 3 years. I'm contemplating maybe taking this approach in the sense no player ever goes to the ground.
I would like to hear theories of this from other coaches and what you all do?
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Post by spreadpowero on Feb 22, 2015 21:49:29 GMT -6
We do not hit out of season. We are also limited to 90 minutes per week. Once the regular season starts, this is not a problem because we never hit on Monday and Thursday. We do tackle to the ground. If they don't practice it, they won't get better at it.
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Post by coachrdc on Feb 22, 2015 21:56:28 GMT -6
We hit "hard" during two practices through the week (Tuesday ave Wednesday). I use the air quotes because we only work talking in our position groups. We are a small team (35 on our roster of big) and in the past we have been afraid to take too much because of injury. We've talked about looking at the hawk tackle (rugby tackle, whatever) not just as a way to improve the quality and safety of our teaching, but also with the thought of safety increasing our teaching reps in practice. I wouldn't be opposed to limiting on session contact to 2 90 minute sessions, we probably end up did about that now just to stay healthy.
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Post by nltdiego on Feb 22, 2015 22:04:23 GMT -6
We hit "hard" during two practices through the week (Tuesday ave Wednesday). I use the air quotes because we only work talking in our position groups. We are a small team (35 on our roster of big) and in the past we have been afraid to take too much because of injury. We've talked about looking at the hawk tackle (rugby tackle, whatever) not just as a way to improve the quality and safety of our teaching, but also with the thought of safety increasing our teaching reps in practice. I wouldn't be opposed to limiting on session contact to 2 90 minute sessions, we probably end up did about that now just to stay healthy. Can you define "hit hard"? |
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Post by coachdawhip on Feb 22, 2015 22:34:33 GMT -6
I went to thud only practices last year. We wear girdles and shorts, kept our legs fresh, less injuries, did we talk better (we did a lot of drills), good question I am sure my defensive staff would be split, however we went further in the playoffs than ever before as a school. Now was that the reason? Heck NO! But I think I will do it again this year.
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Post by wingtol on Feb 23, 2015 7:01:04 GMT -6
We hit any time we are in full pads. Full pads = full contact. Try and have quick whistles during team D but sometimes they aren't quick enough.
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Post by ryanculloty on Feb 23, 2015 9:01:04 GMT -6
We do a lot of thud--but if you are creative you do not have to sacrifice your ability to tackle--we do a tackling circuit everyday--on non contact days we hit: the tackling machine, one-man sled, bags, practice ball strip...etc
Too often your backs will get really banged up with full contact...there are certain aspects of the game that cannot be ignored...but a lot can be covered with this new format...
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Feb 23, 2015 9:30:09 GMT -6
We thud most of the time (Live blocking, nobody hits the ground)- very rarely will be do full contact during team.
The big guys are full-contact live all the time. OL does some live drills, as does DL (Like inside run period and blitz pickup)
The skills are to never hit the ground at practice. This goes along with our philosophy of "FINISH" everything...if a RB gets tripped up and falls he is to get up and sprint either through the goalline or 20yds. Same goes for WR etc...defenders try to return every ball that hits the ground like it's a fumble, including incomplete passes.
Mondays are no contact, Thursdays are run-throughs. Tuesday and Wednesday are THUD - live blocking, backs don't hit the ground.
I like it- keeps the skills fresh until game-time.
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Post by coachrdc on Feb 23, 2015 12:35:25 GMT -6
We hit "hard" during two practices through the week (Tuesday ave Wednesday). I use the air quotes because we only work talking in our position groups. We are a small team (35 on our roster of big) and in the past we have been afraid to take too much because of injury. We've talked about looking at the hawk tackle (rugby tackle, whatever) not just as a way to improve the quality and safety of our teaching, but also with the thought of safety increasing our teaching reps in practice. I wouldn't be opposed to limiting on session contact to 2 90 minute sessions, we probably end up did about that now just to stay healthy. Can you define "hit hard"? Good question. To clarify, I was not meaning that we teach our guys to hit "softly," I was simply referring to live contact drills, like Oklahoma, and taking guys to the ground on tackles. We do these on Tuesday and Wednesday and really only do that until we get someone hurt (always hope it doesn't happen, but someone always seems to roll an ankle or get a stinger), then we back off of those and do more "thud" type work during team. |
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Post by rudyrude9 on Feb 23, 2015 13:05:12 GMT -6
No. I would bet we haven't had a total of 90 minutes of full contact in the last 6 years combined.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 13:20:59 GMT -6
It is a coaches job to get his players ready to compete and keep them as healthy as possible in the process.
Other than accommodating the time limits of the new rules we do not do anything different in practice than we used to before this new age started.
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Post by hsrose on Feb 23, 2015 13:25:03 GMT -6
I coach in CA and my concern with this new law (not CIF rule, this is a state law) is that it does not define what full contact is. I'm looking forward to the definition so I can use the red highlighter to indicate our full contact periods. I don't think the law really did anything great other than get some good press for a politician, I don't think very many folks were hitting 3-4 days per week the entire practice. I just don't want to get into a situation where the local Sheriff comes to the field to take me away because since our individual drills mimic game action so therefore they are full contact, and since we practiced more than 90 minutes I'm in violation.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Feb 23, 2015 13:33:06 GMT -6
Who goes full hitting more than 90 min a week anyway?
Monday shells, Thursday shorts, Tues/Wed you might be in full pads. We go full tackling on Tues for defense team, thud Wed for offense team.
We probably do live tackling for 30 min / week. The rest is thud. Thud in indy, thud in kicking game, thud in skelly, thud in inside run... 28 man roster and a bunch of 8th graders... gotta keep em fresh!
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Post by hsrose on Feb 23, 2015 13:53:13 GMT -6
I just read the bill and it defines full contact as:
“Full-contact practice” means a practice where drills or live action is conducted that involves collisions at game speed, where players execute tackles and other activity that is typical of an actual tackle football game.
I could make a case this includes thud. 1-1/group drills would be included as well. Game speed, other activity could include a lot of drills.
Nobody I know of would be limited by this except during the first week/double-days (if you still do them).
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Post by gibbs72 on Feb 23, 2015 14:34:37 GMT -6
I think you could sacrifice live tackling reps in practice if you use more tackle circuits. We do circuits focusing on technique and hitting bags on 99% of our circuit drills. I don't think your tacking would be too affected if you replaced live reps with some other part of practice focusing solely on tacking fundamentals.
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Post by bluboy on Feb 25, 2015 17:53:35 GMT -6
We follow the same practice format as OREGON. Tuesday is the only day that we really get after it (two 8-minute periods with a very quick whistle). Wednesday is a semi-walk through, and Thursday is a short tempo day. Practicing this way has not hurt us. Our kids are healthy, have fresh legs, and are ready to go on Friday night.
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 25, 2015 23:10:11 GMT -6
Does anyone else find it odd that we expect kids to hit each other with maximum speed and intensity on Friday nights but give them basically no opportunity to practice a pretty technical skill?
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Feb 26, 2015 6:59:54 GMT -6
No, I don't find it odd at all. We still hit, just not to the intensity as Friday night.
I'm starting to see it like I see the weight room- everything setting up to peak at the right time...we're trying to peak Friday night, not blow my load on Wednesday
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 26, 2015 13:52:58 GMT -6
So, the opposite approach of every other tackling sport?
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Post by coachb5806 on Feb 26, 2015 14:57:39 GMT -6
I am clearly in the minority on this one. We go walk thru on Mondays, Tuesday we have intense, live indy periods (30 min o and d), offense against bags, defense thud, and Wednesdays are live. I mean live, full tilt, to the ground for at least an hour. Our goal every week is for our Wednesday to be harder than our Friday. We are a small school with a roster of 36 kids. We are middle of the pack for our classification. We get at least 25 live offensive play reps. If the intensity and physicality are not there, we will send the offense in and start all over. We are a wing-t team. We build everything on physicality.
We had three starters miss games with injuries. 1 got a concussion in practice, 1 got a concussion in a game, and another missed six games with a sprained knee that he injured in a game. The only time our Fridays were tougher than our Wednesdays was the state championship game and our regular season game against the team we played for the state title. They were the only team that could closely match our physicality. They are a double wing team with a very similar philosophy to ours. We played the #2 seed, a 10-1 spread team in the semi's and beat them 53-14. Our game plan was simple, hit them harder than they had ever been hit before and see how they handled it. We did, and they didn't handle it well. We ran 1 offensive formation all game.
I will never understand how you can expect your kids to be physical as hell if it is not a culture you are constantly cultivating in them.
Off season is also key here. We wouldn't be able to survive our season and practice set up if we didn't spend 48 weeks of the year on the weights.
We also played 14 straight games without a bye.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Feb 26, 2015 17:59:34 GMT -6
I went to thud only practices last year. We wear girdles and shorts, kept our legs fresh, less injuries, did we talk better (we did a lot of drills), good question I am sure my defensive staff would be split, however we went further in the playoffs than ever before as a school. Now was that the reason? Heck NO! But I think I will do it again this year. Any issues with knees hitting against one another just using shorts and girdle? |
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Post by mrjvi on Feb 26, 2015 19:59:53 GMT -6
Many ways to do it. We hit hard 3 days per week and always have. We are DW and do major amounts of live play reps. Our kids, I believe, get much tougher than if we did otherwise.
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Post by coachdawhip on Feb 26, 2015 21:32:34 GMT -6
So, the opposite approach of every other tackling sport? No because you can teach something without needing a 100 reps b4 a test, if you get the 1st 3 right, why do u need to do 97 more problems? |
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Post by coachdawhip on Feb 26, 2015 21:35:08 GMT -6
I went to thud only practices last year. We wear girdles and shorts, kept our legs fresh, less injuries, did we talk better (we did a lot of drills), good question I am sure my defensive staff would be split, however we went further in the playoffs than ever before as a school. Now was that the reason? Heck NO! But I think I will do it again this year. Any issues with knees hitting against one another just using shorts and girdle? Yes but no, Not really from time to time they would rub but not really. I have a rising junior TB that most of the scout team kids don't want to tackle any darn way. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 26, 2015 21:49:57 GMT -6
So, the opposite approach of every other tackling sport? No because you can teach something without needing a 100 reps b4 a test, if you get the 1st 3 right, why do u need to do 97 more problems? So exactly the opposite of every other tackling sport? |
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Post by coachdawhip on Feb 26, 2015 21:55:53 GMT -6
No because you can teach something without needing a 100 reps b4 a test, if you get the 1st 3 right, why do u need to do 97 more problems? So exactly the opposite of every other tackling sport? Does that make it right? The answer to your question is whatever you feel is best for your kids. But does that make it right? The most dangerous phrase we can use is "We have always done it this way." |
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Post by fantom on Feb 26, 2015 22:04:49 GMT -6
Does anyone else find it odd that we expect kids to hit each other with maximum speed and intensity on Friday nights but give them basically no opportunity to practice a pretty technical skill? We haven't taken runners to the ground in many years so the new rules have had no real effect on us. When we tackle we hit hard, roll the hips, club the arms, and run through. The only think that we don't do is take the runner to the ground. That's the easy part. |
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Post by mrjvi on Feb 27, 2015 5:15:28 GMT -6
Taking kids to the ground is a different story. We only do that with a very short segment once per week but we hit hard and frequently on both O and D time. I have many kids that don't even play FB until their last couple years in HS. Maybe one year in modified. They have gotten strong and decide to play FB. I can't assume they will be OK with a few hard hits in practice. They will hit and be hit from many different angles and situations in a game where they might play 100 plays. A combination of many reps with great form and live hitting reps in practice needs to happen for our guys to get the number needed to be more "automatic" with safe technique in games.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 27, 2015 5:36:52 GMT -6
Does anyone else find it odd that we expect kids to hit each other with maximum speed and intensity on Friday nights but give them basically no opportunity to practice a pretty technical skill? I say the same thing pretty often. The way most teams practice tackling is no where near what they experience on game days. |
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Post by pvogel on Feb 27, 2015 5:40:10 GMT -6
I know this is not meant to be a political thread, but the fact that CA thought that this was something that needed legislation just riles me up real bad. I know we're all looking at 90 minutes of full contact as ludicrous, but why is this a law issue? Especially since as mentioned the law is so vague and subjective. God forbid you leave the decision in the hands of the people actually doing the work or the school districts that oversee everything. Instead a bunch of over privileged paper pushers that probably have no experience in any kind of athletics siphon money from working people to come up with ridiculous stuff like this. The CA legislation should instead work on figuring out how to stop all the businesses from leaving that broke state. Unreal. End Rant.
As far as the tackling thing is concerned, I played in a program with heavy contact on Tues and Weds. We had physical period every day I believe. Don't remember losing anyone to injury because of it and we were way more physical than anywhere we played. I'm a fan of that and doing full contact on Tues & Weds.
Our HC now came from the college ranks. This was his first year doing High School, so he went to a college style practice later in the season with just uppers. Our tackling got worse, and it is something we're changing this year. He sees that its a different game at this level and we'll be doing more contact this year and through the whole season. We'll also be making better use of circuits to keep our technique sound.
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