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Post by coachjm on May 2, 2015 17:34:07 GMT -6
It is what you don't know you don't know that kills you! Once coached with a guy who had a division 1 NCAA national championship ring and a super bowl ring and I'm pretty sure his greatest desire was still to be a head HS coach. The #1 thing I learned from him was...... You don't know what you don't know and you won't know it until you learn it!
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Post by lochness on May 2, 2015 17:53:52 GMT -6
Like so many others have said...I thought I knew it all. Looking back, I knew absolutely nothing. I am ashamed of how arrogant and ineffective I was. I can't even begin to imagine how many games I cost the first HS team I coached for. I had way too much responsibility way too early. All scheme and no substance.
My advice to any young coach: scheme guys are a dime-a dozen, particularly guys who are into the trendy stuff. I will never hire one of these guys. Show me a guy who knows how to relate properly to kids and work mechanics and fundamentals..and I'll show you a guy I'm begging to be on my staff. BEGGING. Particularly if he is young, energetic and humble.
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Post by Cody Gardner on May 2, 2015 18:12:50 GMT -6
It would be hard to quantify how little I knew about football at 21 compared to what I know now. And how much I will know next year. But it's more about coaching than football, go coach another sport.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 20:11:26 GMT -6
Like so many others have said...I thought I knew it all. Looking back, I knew absolutely nothing. I am ashamed of how arrogant and ineffective I was. I can't even begin to imagine how many games I cost the first HS team I coached for. I had way too much responsibility way too early. All scheme and no substance. My advice to any young coach: scheme guys are a dime-a dozen, particularly guys who are into the trendy stuff. I will never hire one of these guys. Show me a guy who knows how to relate properly to kids and work mechanics and fundamentals..and I'll show you a guy I'm begging to be on my staff. BEGGING. Particularly if he is young, energetic and humble. This x100. I got my first "real" teaching and coaching job as a DC at age 24. Coached 6 years at my alma mater after graduating, very successful program at a ~900 kid school in my time as a player and coach, and my new job was at a small, rural school of ~220 kids with little to no history of success in the last 25 years. I came in full of energy and passion, and the players, community, and holdover coaches thought I was the next Lombardi. Of course, as a young coach, I ate it all up. Come to find out that in reality, in thinking that I knew scheme and could "talk" a pretty good game... I didn't know a damn thing, my colleagues knew even less (as another poster said!), and although we made some big strides in getting the kids/community excited about football again... we gave up 309 points on our way to 2-7. I installed a new scheme in my 2nd year at the school, we improved to giving up "only" 200 points on our way to 4-5, but due to many BS politics (you'll learn A LOT about that too!!!) and undermining from my colleagues I resigned my position and was very fortunate to find a job on the varsity staff of another highly successful program in the area. I guess you could say I took a "demotion" from DC to being a position coach, but I am with a staff now that has over 200 combined years of coaching experience and who are very similar to myself in terms of philosophies. It was the best move I've ever made and I could not be happier football-wise. My time will come eventually as a DC again and later as a HC, but I am enjoying the heck out of learning from the guys I work with. What I will say in regard to the original post... I did not get into coaching because I thought I was a great X and O mind. I enjoyed the relationships, the team, the family, and the life skills that our sport teaches more than anything else. That has always been my #1 priority and the root of my desire to coach football, like many of the coaches on here. The X's and O's were and always will be secondary, though I have studied my rear end off in that aspect and am only now starting to feel at age 27 like I have a good grasp on things in our game. Ultimately, it comes down to who you are associated with. My previous position was with a staff of guys who coached football VERY MUCH "on the side" and were not willing to put the time in for the program to be great, or even just good. It is unspeakably important, as best as you possibly can, to surround yourself with elite people who you are on the same page with. Stay humble and understand that you must ALWAYS be learning, because the old adage that "the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know" is as true in football as it is in anything else. Good luck!
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on May 4, 2015 8:35:06 GMT -6
Like so many others have said...I thought I knew it all. Looking back, I knew absolutely nothing. I am ashamed of how arrogant and ineffective I was. I can't even begin to imagine how many games I cost the first HS team I coached for. I had way too much responsibility way too early. All scheme and no substance. My advice to any young coach: scheme guys are a dime-a dozen, particularly guys who are into the trendy stuff. I will never hire one of these guys. Show me a guy who knows how to relate properly to kids and work mechanics and fundamentals..and I'll show you a guy I'm begging to be on my staff. BEGGING. Particularly if he is young, energetic and humble. This is a very profound, humbling statement. Any young guys reading this thread PLEASE heed his advice...
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Post by coachmonkey on May 4, 2015 10:38:12 GMT -6
Wow y'all took this in a completely different direction than I intended...of course I know there is more to it than that. My current job consists of very little schematics but more player relations. There is a reason I am loved by our kids. a coach isn't worth a nickel if he doesn't build relationships... This worries me a slight bit. As a coach, there is a fine line between being their friend and being their coach. I am not saying you are on either side of this line. But it is important to remember you are their coach.
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Post by newhope on May 4, 2015 10:42:04 GMT -6
Well, if you got the knowledge, the relationships and the kids love you....what do you need from us? For us to tell you we didn't have all that when we started?
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Post by coachmonkey on May 4, 2015 10:44:07 GMT -6
Like so many others have said...I thought I knew it all. Looking back, I knew absolutely nothing. I am ashamed of how arrogant and ineffective I was. I can't even begin to imagine how many games I cost the first HS team I coached for. I had way too much responsibility way too early. All scheme and no substance. My advice to any young coach: scheme guys are a dime-a dozen, particularly guys who are into the trendy stuff. I will never hire one of these guys. Show me a guy who knows how to relate properly to kids and work mechanics and fundamentals..and I'll show you a guy I'm begging to be on my staff. BEGGING. Particularly if he is young, energetic and humble. This is a very profound, humbling statement. Any young guys reading this thread PLEASE heed his advice... From "Complete Linebacking." I'm reminded of a story told by Bo Schembechler in Boulder at one of our Colorado High School Clinics. Bo said he was looking to hire a young, enthusiastic position coach on defense and happened to attend a clinic in California. He was intrigued by a young Division II college coordinator who was a polished speaker and quite handsome. The young coach used all the modern buzzwords and seemed to have an answer for everything in his defensive philosophy. Suddenly a local high school coach said, "But tell us, Coach, why you gave up 400 yards per game." The coach responded, "It wasn't because of scheme, it was ONLY tackling." Bo was no longer impressed.
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Post by natenator on May 4, 2015 10:53:48 GMT -6
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Post by wolverine55 on May 4, 2015 13:38:10 GMT -6
I agree with what almost everyone has posted in terms of thinking they knew way more than they did. I definitely fit that as well. Also, when I was a younger coach, I didn't understand the importance of asking questions, even if they weren't about our scheme or our upcoming opponent in particular. I didn't fully realize the importance of learning just for the sake of learning. The best staff I've been a part of was my very first one, but I did a poor job of taking advantage of the opportunity.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2015 20:38:51 GMT -6
X's and O's are the easy part. Of course you know more about them than most guys your age. An aspiring musician would know about music than the layperson or a beginner, too.
If you really want to learn this game, coach OL. I'm not just talking blocking schemes and rules, but the techniques and adjustments, as well as how to motivate and relate to the kids who work the hardest but get none of the glory.
Learn exactly how to teach a smaller, weaker, less talented lineman with good technique to whip a more talented monster of a man on different types of plays all night long without needing help and learn exactly how to do it in a way that he KNOWS he can do it without hesitation. Then you will understand football.
That's the key: learning how to teach the game and develop the players. Anyone can draw up IZ on a whiteboard, but can you teach a kid who's never played football before how to fire off and execute it against all the different fronts, while also teaching him how to pass block and adjust his assignment depending on technique?
If you want to master Xs and Os, focus on special teams right now. Learn how to coach those and how to adjust them.
If you really want to study offense... put the spread stuff aside in the offseason and study the exact opposite to get a new perspective.
But right now, just focus on being the best position coach you can be and challenge yourself to learn the positions you know the least about.
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Post by piratepride2823 on May 4, 2015 20:54:29 GMT -6
I'm 21 now, 4th year coaching coming up. When I started at 18, I didn't know a thing, and compared to most I still don't. Couldn't tell you where a 5 or 7 technique lines up - why? Because we don't teach it that way and I have spent 3 years only learning our system. I didn't play football. 3rd season I was in total control of our offensive line. The kids seem to like me, but I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade and ask for help sometimes. Always learn.
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Post by piratepride2823 on May 4, 2015 20:57:18 GMT -6
I too cost our teams valuable reps in practice- at 19 coaching 14 year olds, it was hard to not be their friends. I probably made our OC (now principal) want to kill me at times. Just the same, if a spread offense team hired me today I would be useless. Like Johnny Manziel, I'm just a system/program guy. Haven't ventured out to learn the other ways of the world.
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Post by jgordon1 on May 5, 2015 6:30:04 GMT -6
I just wanted to add this to this thread because in football "knowledge" is a very narrow focus.
I completely agree here. I always wonder how some of these guys that blog seem to "KNOW" so much. just like DC said they are just parroting info and could not teach it or more importantly FIX it
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Post by theyoungballcoach on May 5, 2015 7:11:38 GMT -6
Sometimes I feel bad for the kids I coached back then. I'm so much of a better coach now than I was, I feel like they were cheated. I think we can all relate to that statement when looking back at ourselves early in our careers.
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Post by blb on May 5, 2015 7:37:41 GMT -6
Sometimes I feel bad for the kids I coached back then. I'm so much of a better coach now than I was, I feel like they were cheated. I think we can all relate to that statement when looking back at ourselves early in our careers.
Yes.
Ironically just when I feel like I'm getting closer to having this coaching thing figured out, I've reached retirement age.
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Post by natenator on May 5, 2015 8:13:57 GMT -6
I think we can all relate to that statement when looking back at ourselves early in our careers.
Yes.
Ironically just when I feel like I'm getting closer to having this coaching thing figured out, I've reached retirement age.
This was me last year as a first year DC and spent more time on scheme instead of positional fundamentals. I recognized that at the end of year kids may have been smarter football people but they were not better football players because they didn't get enough positional work. Feel like I really let the boys down.
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Post by joelee on May 5, 2015 8:52:30 GMT -6
I played for a guy who won around 300 games. My first year coaching was under him. One day in the office I suggested that we do something different with the practice schedule. He looked at me like I had 3 heads. I don't even remember what I wanted to do but it doesn't matter because what he did was simple and it worked.
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Post by coachdubyah on May 5, 2015 9:06:01 GMT -6
Aside from all this...It's the "HOW" not the "What". When I was 23, I "coached" college ball. Our staff went and visited with Florida State. That was around the time Rick Trickett became the Oline coach. The quote he gave has stuck with me ever since and pretty much changed my views on a lot. The quote, "Recruiting will fail you, funadmentals never will". In short, your Indy time is more valuable than any other part of practice. Don't get me wrong, I can scheme with the best of them. Hell, we all can. But, you MUST know the fundamentals of any offense or defense that you are coaching. Learned this the first time I was a Coordinator. Failed miserably. But, I'll be better the next opportunity I get.
Good thread.
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Post by coachbrek on May 5, 2015 11:53:16 GMT -6
I don't know if this is appropriate or not, but you probably think you're pretty good in the bedroom too at 21.
You've probably broke down a lot of film, worked on a lot of individual, but 20 years from now you realize you weren't very good at it.
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Post by canesfan on May 5, 2015 15:18:36 GMT -6
Whatever you think you know right now is nothing compared to what you'll know in ten years if you are willin to learn from others.
The last thing you want to do is get hired to a staff and disrespect the other coaches. Even if they're old school and not modern they know plenty about the game that a young or inexperienced coach has never even thought about.
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Post by dytmook on May 5, 2015 16:23:59 GMT -6
I knew plays at age and a bit about offense's as a whole when I started a few years later. Now I know an offensive system or two and basics of coaching Oline and Dline. My biggest focus is to continue getting better at indy and group coaching and techniques.
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Post by rsmith627 on May 5, 2015 18:49:03 GMT -6
I knew everything when I started, and know less every year as I see how much I have yet to learn.
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Post by canesfan on May 5, 2015 19:25:18 GMT -6
Wow y'all took this in a completely different direction than I intended...of course I know there is more to it than that. My current job consists of very little schematics but more player relations. There is a reason I am loved by our kids. a coach isn't worth a nickel if he doesn't build relationships... Coach, the coaches on here are giving you great advice. Please take it. Learn from your superiors. 5 years from now you'll be surprised at how much you've grown if you do. If you think you have all the answers you're wrong. Nick Saban could visit other college or NFL staffs and learn something. When guys like him and Meyer admit that they need to learn from others, it's pretty clear that we all do. As a semi young coach, I'll caution that your players will love and respect you if you hold them accountable. Be personable, but not a buddy. A buddy can't coach them. More importantly a buddy will not gain the respect of his coaching peers. Get label as "that guy" an it's hard to overcome as a coach with your fellow coaches or players. I'm not saying that's you, just trying to help you out if you fall into that category. My advice to you would be to get on the best staff you can find. If you get with a real experienced coach you might find out the difference in an experienced coach and a young guy. We all have the answers until the bullets start flying on Friday night....them we remember we didn't properly teach a technique, or that our routes are bad, or that our DBs have poorly coached feet. Relationships matter, Xs and Os matter, but technique and discipline are great foundations for any coach. Just my $.02.
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Post by gambler00 on May 5, 2015 21:21:15 GMT -6
A few thoughts. When I first got into coaching I wanted to be an innovator or do things in football that have never been done before. I quickly realized that innovative stuff from the NFL and college doesn't always translate to high school. I thought in some cases that the older coaches didn't know the new stuff so I knew more. In reality the the evolution of football never stops but we have reached a stopping point in fb offense. The spread has re instituted traditional concepts in almost every form possible. So in reality being 10 years older than you I can say you probably are where I was 10 years ago. You do know a few things but haven't had the chance to be a well rounded football coach. I had a coach tell me that I needed to get my doctorate in football which meant spend 30 min. To an hour each day studying football unrelated to what we are coaching. You need to tear into some old veer playbooks and see how football developed. Read this message board. Meet with other high school coaches and talk shop. Learn how to teach your system not just call a play. ASAP you need to sit down with an OLINE coach. In the end in football these days coaches are to focused on one side of the ball. I think head coaches need to be able to coach it all. Do you know how to coach special teams? Do you know the rules of the game? These are just some areas to consider.
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Post by John Knight on May 6, 2015 4:56:40 GMT -6
The most important thing to remember is this.
It really doesn't matter what you know. It matters what your kids know and what they can do.
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Post by shocktroop34 on May 6, 2015 8:51:02 GMT -6
I don't know if this is appropriate or not, but you probably think you're pretty good in the bedroom too at 21. So true! After 22 years of marriage, my youngest son comes up to my wife and asks what an orgasm is. She said, "I wouldn't know, you better ask your father." *Rimshot* I'll be here all week, tip your waiter... Many guys have said it, regardless of age or experience, we're all still learning.
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Post by coachdubyah on May 29, 2015 9:11:17 GMT -6
Just don't be one of those guys that asks out loud in a staff meeting yesterday..."What am I going to do for 30 minutes of Indy Time everyday?!?!"...Are you F'n serious? 30 minutes is still not enough for me. I slept on it and that still aggravates me.
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Post by joelee on May 29, 2015 9:19:34 GMT -6
Had a buddy of mine on another staff tell me a story.Kind of an "out of the mouth of babes" moment. First year coach is in an extra long Sunday offensive game planning meeting. Somewhere during hour #6 they new guy gets tired of it all and looks at the head coach, "why don't you just take the plays that work and run those all the time"?
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Post by windigo on May 29, 2015 9:20:04 GMT -6
Hell I knew the game ... but I didn't know {censored} about coaching. The game itself is maybe 10%.
No one cares about that you are saying until they know you care about them. And that is a major double edged sword. Emotionally investing in those young men brings the greatest highs but also the greatest lows.
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