|
|
Post by coachseth on May 3, 2015 21:56:57 GMT -6
Greeting gentlemen, I hope all of you are enjoying your offseasons.
I was wondering if anybody around here has created their own system for youth coaches who might be struggling?
The reason I ask is, when I coached youth football it was a very eye opening experience at how little I actually knew until I went clinicing. Now I know most youth football coaches are fathers or businessmen who might not have that kind of time and I'm interested in designing a system that will help them out. Something that they can utilize and run from year to year hopefully finding success.
So my big question is, does anybody have any experience designing something like this? Or does anybody know if there would be a big market for something like this? Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachdoug on May 4, 2015 6:44:23 GMT -6
Yeah, there are a bunch of people who have done exactly that. There is certainly a market - there are about a million kids playing youth football, so if the average team has 25 players, that's 40,000 teams, each with a coaching staff. Now a large percentage of those are too egotistical or bull-headed, or just don't know what they don't know, and will never consider spending money learning how to teach a game they think they know because they've either been playing it or watching it their entire life. It isn't something that's going to make you rich, but you can definitely sell some books or videos. Some of the guys that have had some success selling their youth systems include:
- Dave Cisar - _ (SW & WT6)
- Steve Calande - not sure what his website is, you can find him here or at dumcoach - he is currently the Head Varsity coach at East Catholic in Hartford, CT. He runs DW and the 46 GAMbler defense.
- Glenn Harris - _ (Spread)
- Clark Wilkins - dumcoach.com (he's run a mulititude of systems over the years)
- Jack Reed - not sure what his website it, and he's kind of an ass (probably won't help you at all unless you buy his stuff first), but you can just google his name. (SW & GAM)
There are a bunch of others, but those are the guys that come immediately to mind. Good luck.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on May 4, 2015 11:36:09 GMT -6
Greeting gentlemen, I hope all of you are enjoying your offseasons. I was wondering if anybody around here has created their own system for youth coaches who might be struggling? The reason I ask is, when I coached youth football it was a very eye opening experience at how little I actually knew until I went clinicing. Now I know most youth football coaches are fathers or businessmen who might not have that kind of time and I'm interested in designing a system that will help them out. Something that they can utilize and run from year to year hopefully finding success. So my big question is, does anybody have any experience designing something like this? Or does anybody know if there would be a big market for something like this? Thanks in advance. I'm working on it, though I started out late in life & with some other handicaps; it may never be completed. It's not the 1st time I've thought about doing instructional stuff, although the previous idea wasn't going to be for sports & was going to be for $; the football thing won't be for $.
I think most people who've had the experience of instructing or in some way of taking charge of others have at some point gotten the idea of generalizing it, making the materials they devise available for others. To see one example, I put on the WWW my instructions for term papers for my students (mostly adults) years ago; you can get some idea of how pathetic many of them were from the contents here. There's at least one online organiz'n I know of that's trying to systematize that for $, called Teachers Pay Teachers.
If you want to make $ at it, though, you should keep in mind 2 things. One is the distinction between trade secret & copyright. You can't copyright ideas, only their literary expression. It's only the style by which you present things that can be copyrighted, not the facts themselves. So, for instance, recipes practically speaking can't be copyrighted, although cookbooks can. If you think your actual ideas are that valuable, you can make them trade secrets, the way magicians do some of their tricks, for instance; you wind up creating a kind of cult of info. You contract with people you disseminate info to to keep it a secret. I don't think that's a practical way to make $ with football, though. If you thought what you had was revolutionary enough to be considered an invention, I suppose you could get a utility patent for it, but it'd be hard for me to conceive of anything specific to football coaching that'd be like that.
The other thing is to expect your material to be pirated if it's copyrighted. If it's just text or even diagrams, it's very hard to defend yourself against such piracy, because it's easy to erase the traces of where it came from. It's easier to defend yourself by proving it's your material if it consists of something like videos of you giving a chalk talk or working with players.
Also, to convince people of the value of your material, you're going to have to give a lot of it away, gratis. Which means you're going to have to produce so much of it that even after you've given a lot away, there's more to sell. Take for instance Dave Cisar. He gives away tons of free material, even in a form that's fairly convenient, online. He still has books, DVDs, & personal appearances to sell, though.
If you look at porn online, you realize the Internet has so driven down the price of the material that it's mostly free now, its purveyors reduced to making bucks by such subterfuges as virus-based advertising, credit card ripoffs, etc. A few are legitimate operators who use the free stuff as teaser for legitimate for-sale stuff that's supposed to be much better. Part of the problem is that porn performers & producers are sometimes ashamed of their product & hence aren't diligent in claiming ownership of it, hence are easily pirated. But the main difference between porn & football coaching in the market is that the value of pornography is instantly apparent, while it can be hard to tell how valuable coaching info is.
Dave Cisar slowly built up a network of followers who exist both to test & verify the value of his material, giving feedback, and to convince others of its value. If it were just one guy & his own teams, you might not be as convinced, even if you visited them & watched them yourself. (Dave, if you're reading this, sorry I'm comparing your stuff to porn, but I'm just looking at it from a business aspect. Other coaches selling materials, I'm using Dave Cisar as the example I know best.)
Most of us, however, look at this as a labor of love, as your customers would. Even Dave Cisar looks at his stuff primarily that way; he certainly doesn't need to be in the business. I'd just like to see my ideas get out there & get used. I'm guessing that's your primary interest too.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachrobpsl on May 4, 2015 17:15:10 GMT -6
Another great one Doug missed weas Jack Gregory. He has a great dw system and a 6-3 defense. Coach JJ has a great and simple DW and 3-3 stack. Coach Coxman has a bunch of dw stuff and some defense stuff as well(4-2-5 I believe). Coach Marsden has a great split 4 defense. For the beginner coach who knows almost nothing the Cisar and Gregory stuff is great.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on May 4, 2015 18:22:05 GMT -6
Here's Teachers Pay Teachers. They're a clearinghouse, taking a cut of sales, meanwhile allowing plenty of free exchange of materials. I wasn't suggesting them as the place to sell, but more as a way to get a sense of the market, yet, come to think of it, I don't see any sports stuff there, so they may be exploitable virgin territory. The other coaches we've discussed advertise where coaches already gather online. Clark Wilkins is one of them who has his own Web site for discussion, and he's very nice in that he doesn't hog the traffic to advance his own sales, though if you wanted to out-and-out advertise there you'd have to arrange it with him, similarly to advertising here at Huey's. He gets a lot of help moderating & running the site from other coaches too, and maybe he'd trade advertising for such help.
Steve Calande has been nice enough to send me some of his DVDs free, and is an example of the great deal of outreach these guys tend to do. Ted Seay has free downloads too.
I'm on the e-mail list of mycoachonline.com , which covers many sports for all ages. I haven't looked at much of their stuff, however. I think their videos are independently produced, possibly sold on consignment, or maybe they buy the rights or even contract to have them produced, I don't know. No entire systems for sale there that I know of, just relatively confined topics.
Others I've looked at a little include Coach Somebody and Coach Teed. There's the National Association for Youth Sports (and its subsidiary National Youth Sports Coaching Ass'n), which has mostly general materials, but for all I know they may be interested in selling more particular products. Then there's USA Football, which is sponsored by the NFL and sells courses & clinics, and for all I know might be interested in being a dealer of OEM materials. |
|
|
|
Post by coachseth on May 4, 2015 21:36:27 GMT -6
My primary interest is to see things get used and to make a little extra money on the side as I'm a college student whose working a part time job while taking a full course load.
I would like to see my ideas get used, but most of all I would like to help out those guys I use to coach against. The guys who are coaching to spend time with their sons or guys who are doing it but maybe don't know a whole lot about football. Kind of in the Dave Cisar mold, where he helps folks and programs who maybe stuggle because of the difference in the game they played in high school or watch on Saturday's and Sunday's.
Mostly I have a ton of ideas, I openly admit they're not revolutionary...but if they help coaches take the next step to succeed and teach kids then I'm willing to share and/or work with these coaches. Watching the show Friday Night Tykes (while it is overdramatized) has me remembering some of the coaches I coached against and how clueless they were in terms of what to do with their athletes and how to have a productive offensive system. That's not a knock on them, as I remember when I was clueless too (and I still am in a ton of aspects).
|
|
coachcorrea
Sophomore Member
Loved By Few But Respected By All
Posts: 120 
|
Post by coachcorrea on May 4, 2015 22:17:12 GMT -6
Do you have a body of work data and field test's to back up your ideas? Are you currently coaching ? Has your system been proven are they documented on your local league's website so we can take a look. If I was a buyer these would be the thing's I'm looking for before I even considering listening or making a purchase.
|
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on May 5, 2015 8:13:53 GMT -6
You are right, most dads dont have the time to get on the net or go to a bunch of clinics to develop their coaching skills. Most coach for 3-4 years and then are done when their son ages out. That is just about the time, they start figuring things out. Yes, there are some guys like me who have coached for 25 years and through trial and error, clinics, study etc have been able to put together a template for success based on real world experience and results. but there arent many. Best of luck.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachseth on May 5, 2015 23:07:14 GMT -6
Do you have a body of work data and field test's to back up your ideas? Are you currently coaching ? Has your system been proven are they documented on your local league's website so we can take a look. If I was a buyer these would be the thing's I'm looking for before I even considering listening or making a purchase. 1) Yes. 2) Yes. 3) No...the general idea would be to find some coaches to trial it out for the first year so we can gather that. I see what you're saying, but I'd think that most coaches have to allow other youth coaches to test a product then review it. |
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on May 6, 2015 5:58:17 GMT -6
Seth
The deal is- most youth coaches dont want to be test animals. They want to follow something that has consistently worked over the long haul with a variety of teams and age groups.
|
|
|
|
Post by davecisar on May 6, 2015 6:00:18 GMT -6
Seth
Best of luck
|
|
coachcorrea
Sophomore Member
Loved By Few But Respected By All
Posts: 120
|
Post by coachcorrea on May 6, 2015 8:11:16 GMT -6
Do you have a body of work data and field test's to back up your ideas? Are you currently coaching ? Has your system been proven are they documented on your local league's website so we can take a look. If I was a buyer these would be the thing's I'm looking for before I even considering listening or making a purchase. 1) Yes. 2) Yes. 3) No...the general idea would be to find some coaches to trial it out for the first year so we can gather that. I see what you're saying, but I'd think that most coaches have to allow other youth coaches to test a product then review it. My brother your system's have to be proven by you and your team's for any of us to listen I have won 85% of all games I've head coached that's 11 seasons worth with numerous Championship's and this all been done within a national structure so my stuff has been proven and tested on grass and i'm still not ready to share yet. I just constantly ask question's play around with different blocking techniques, schemes, and overall philosophies that I learn from older coaches such as Coach Cisar and Coach Cianflone (never my age or younger i'm 35) and focus on being an all around better father, person, and football coach . I got 14 yrs in this business and seen a lot and been thru a lot as I've owned 3 different programs built them up from near extinction to + 300 boy's and girl's so i'm pretty sure I've come across enough lousy coaching to know that we will all want to see current data of what your trying to sell and proof of your body of work. |
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on May 6, 2015 10:50:07 GMT -6
Seth The deal is- most youth coaches dont want to be test animals. They want to follow something that has consistently worked over the long haul with a variety of teams and age groups. That's true of most people doing most things -- business, politics, romance, entertainment -- not just sports. And it's a problem I need to overcome, and which everyone needs to overcome for some purpose or other. How do you prove the worth of ideas you have unless someone gives you a chance, and why give you a chance when the idea's worth is not established? Can't get a job w/o experience, can't get experience w/o a job. Etc.
It seems to boil down to 2 choices, or a combination of them. You either have to sell yourself personally & get someone to trust you & let you implement your ideas (without telling them about those ideas), or to sell your ideas to people who think they can implement them to their advantage as a new thing. If you get them to trust you personally, it may be for entirely different reasons than any of your ideas. If you sell your ideas directly, it'll probably be to people who project their own personalities onto the ideas regardless of what they think about you personally.
When promoting something (like your system of football or the teaching thereof), it seems you need to differentiate your thing from others enough to make it worthwhile, but at the same time call enough att'n to its similarity to what already exists & is successful that it gains credibility from that success. Not too different, not too much the same.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachseth on May 7, 2015 21:45:38 GMT -6
1) Yes. 2) Yes. 3) No...the general idea would be to find some coaches to trial it out for the first year so we can gather that. I see what you're saying, but I'd think that most coaches have to allow other youth coaches to test a product then review it. My brother your system's have to be proven by you and your team's for any of us to listen I have won 85% of all games I've head coached that's 11 seasons worth with numerous Championship's and this all been done within a national structure so my stuff has been proven and tested on grass and i'm still not ready to share yet. I just constantly ask question's play around with different blocking techniques, schemes, and overall philosophies that I learn from older coaches such as Coach Cisar and Coach Cianflone (never my age or younger i'm 35) and focus on being an all around better father, person, and football coach . I got 14 yrs in this business and seen a lot and been thru a lot as I've owned 3 different programs built them up from near extinction to + 300 boy's and girl's so i'm pretty sure I've come across enough lousy coaching to know that we will all want to see current data of what your trying to sell and proof of your body of work. I agree, and I have won using the system but also moved up to a higher level of coaching. Understandably most coaches don't want to be test subjects, this was mostly an idea I was bouncing around. Being a high school coach we run something most kids in youth physically can't run. But what if we can take the core pieces of this offense that is proven to work and utilize it to the youth game? That's the angle I was getting at. Is it revolutionary? Not entirely, but I would like to explore options and/or systems that could exploit the passing game in youth football. I think it's something that kids now can handle, and I'll tell you from my standpoint we get a lot of kids who don't know how to play the position and it's a lot of teaching (not that we mind). But what if that teaching could be limited? I'm a curious mind and a curious person, is it something I'm going all in on? Not right at the moment. Is it something that with time could be done? For sure. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on May 9, 2015 15:40:41 GMT -6
What experience do you have at the youth level?
|
|
|
|
Post by morris on May 10, 2015 8:30:18 GMT -6
What's the system?
|
|
|
|
Post by mahonz on May 10, 2015 8:53:26 GMT -6
Greeting gentlemen, I hope all of you are enjoying your offseasons. I was wondering if anybody around here has created their own system for youth coaches who might be struggling? The reason I ask is, when I coached youth football it was a very eye opening experience at how little I actually knew until I went clinicing. Now I know most youth football coaches are fathers or businessmen who might not have that kind of time and I'm interested in designing a system that will help them out. Something that they can utilize and run from year to year hopefully finding success. So my big question is, does anybody have any experience designing something like this? Or does anybody know if there would be a big market for something like this? Thanks in advance. Hopefully it is something that hasn't been "done to death" already. Lots of competition out there so if you are not actually on the job and coaching your systems....you would need to find a niche. I think the market is huge now with the Net being in just about every household now. Plus like others have mentioned...an endless market since many coaches are in and then out rather quickly. A slick website would be a good start with instant downloads and the like. Something coaches will at least take a look at and then bite while they are shopping. I'd also go the volume route so keep the pricing low. Any money spent is always out of pocket since your are dealing with volunteers. If a coach spends a small amount for something and never ends up using it....no harm if they can at least pick up and idea or two from you. I always thought a website where you can download an article for a buck or two per would be great. Have a couple 100 articles to choose from and you now are speaking to the market. Some of these "Internet Coaches" have playbooks that are so overwhelmingly large....it becomes daunting for the novice...and its the novice that needs the most help. Nuggets of info might be a better avenue. Plus with all of the different Youth League Formats out there....tough to design anything that is a "one size fits all". Impossible really. Good luck. |
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on May 10, 2015 18:46:20 GMT -6
I always thought a website where you can download an article for a buck or two per would be great. Have a couple 100 articles to choose from and you now are speaking to the market. AFAICT, that's the model My Coach Online follows, but with videos. They offer a membership plan and a la carte. |
|
|
|
Post by 33coach on May 10, 2015 20:52:38 GMT -6
We have built our own system/terminology set...but I'm not ashamed to say we borrowed from ALOT of coaches to do so.
|
|
|
|
Post by mahonz on May 11, 2015 10:39:24 GMT -6
I always thought a website where you can download an article for a buck or two per would be great. Have a couple 100 articles to choose from and you now are speaking to the market. AFAICT, that's the model My Coach Online follows, but with videos. They offer a membership plan and a la carte. Youth friendly? |
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on May 11, 2015 22:49:54 GMT -6
AFAICT, that's the model My Coach Online follows, but with videos. They offer a membership plan and a la carte. Youth friendly? I've never bought, so I don't know, but the stuff they advertise in their e-mails is not youth-specific & may not be youth-friendly. |
|
|
|
Post by 19delta on May 12, 2015 20:26:04 GMT -6
When I got into youth coaching 6 years ago, we went with Hugh Wyatt's DW offense and Dave Cisar's WT6 defense (we have since moved to Dave's SW offense as well). Here's why we went with Dave and Hugh: - Instructional videos and manuals are easy to understand
- Dave and Hugh aren't going to try and impress you. You aren't going to get any "coachspeak" from them. They don't care about being the smartest guy in the room or winning a game of "who holds the dry erase marker last".
- Lots of game video included in instructional materials. Both systems are field-tested over many seasons with all sorts of different kinds of kids.
- follow-up support is excellent. I have never gone more than a couple days without getting a question answered.
IMO, these are the qualities that are most important when considering in which system to invest.
|
|
