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Post by nltdiego on May 15, 2015 23:54:19 GMT -6
We usually have 50+ plus going into Spring Ball. We have raised the bar and made off season more difficult. We are now entering spring ball with 35 players. Was told made it to hard too early.
I disagreed and think quitters validate program. Yes or No?
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Post by realdawg on May 16, 2015 4:35:05 GMT -6
Depends on who is quitting. Not necessarily a good thing, not necessarily a bad thing. Gotta look and see what kids have quit.
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Post by CS on May 16, 2015 5:02:23 GMT -6
We usually have 50+ plus going into Spring Ball. We have raised the bar and made off season more difficult. We are now entering spring ball with 35 players. Was told made it to hard too early. I disagreed and think quitters validate program. Yes or No? I don't understand "to hard to early?" It's never to early to start setting the bar where you want it to be. I don't think that quitters validate the program necessarily, but from what you say it looks like you just cut the biscuit eaters and have the guys who really want to play. |
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Post by coachklee on May 16, 2015 5:06:31 GMT -6
We usually have 50+ plus going into Spring Ball. We have raised the bar and made off season more difficult. We are now entering spring ball with 35 players. Was told made it to hard too early. I disagreed and think quitters validate program. Yes or No? I don't understand "to hard to early?" It's never to early to start setting the bar where you want it to be. I don't think that quitters validate the program necessarily, but from what you say it looks like you just cut the biscuit eaters and have the guys who really want to play. And the "ok" thing is they cut themselves...correct? |
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Post by groundchuck on May 16, 2015 6:04:04 GMT -6
Depends on who's leaving the program and why.
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Post by newhope on May 16, 2015 7:18:15 GMT -6
What's too hard? Who quit? Why did they quit?
I mean, if I decided to up the bar and had them run barefoot over hot coals in the first 10 minutes of practice, I think that would probably be too hard too early.
As to the general question, no I don't believe quitting validates anything.
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Post by shocktroop34 on May 16, 2015 7:27:55 GMT -6
There are a few different ways to approach quitters. Even if you made it "too hard, too early" one could still infer that because people quit, there is lack of positive communication and rapport between the staff and certain players.
Were the players that quit 1st-team all conference players?
Were the players that quit those with low-to-marginal potential or impact in the program?
As coaches, we rarely let our major impact players quit because it's "too hard." On the other hand, we pat ourselves on the back if we "trim the fat" with players that are more or less "taking up space."
Some may disagree with me, but in the base sense of positive communication and rapport building, when a player quits, regardless of talent level, the coach has a role in why the player quit.
Obviously, there are scenario's where (as a coach) you're hoping certain kids do quit (potential cancer's, etc.) Been there. Nevertheless, we as coaching/educators and servant leaders should strive to retain as many young people as possible.
Doing so forces us to get outside of our comfort zone and into the lives of the players in order to find out what makes them tick. All the players. Not just the ones getting mail.
I used to have a personal saying (regarding our numbers) that "if we're getting smaller, we're getting better." What I failed to do was ask myself if I had done all that I could to build the rapport with those particular players to make them WANT to be a part of the program. In most cases, I did not.
We all know that kids need the game more than the game needs them. That rings true, and probably even more, for the kids that quit.
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Post by rsmith627 on May 16, 2015 7:53:34 GMT -6
If your whole team quits does that mean you have the best program in the state?
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Post by s73 on May 16, 2015 8:17:32 GMT -6
I can only speak for myself when I say that I have had kids quit & it was "on them" and I have also had kids quit and it was "on me".
When it's on them, it's usually b/c they weren't real in vested in the first place. When t's on me? Occasionally I am willing to admit that I have gotten on a kid for not doing well enough and was too hard on him & forget, again on occasion that this is just a game. And my over bearing self made it not very fun anymore.
The majority of the time,IMO, it's a little of both when kids quit. So no, I don't believe it validates a program. I also believe (not looking to fight at all, just being honest) that you polling the question shows some insight to the fact that you probably already know that it isn't a good thing. Again, JMO.
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Post by coach2013 on May 16, 2015 8:19:04 GMT -6
Quitters in the off season? or you just mean that they arent participating in the off season program?
We definately have kids that are not involved but I dont consider them as "quitters"-we just havent sold them on it and they havent bought into the work /sacrifice values for this sport.
Not every kid does. In fact, Id say the majority if kids that want to play football dont want to sacrifice as much as all of the coaches in this sport demand.
This is something we consider carefully. we focus on strength trianing in the off season and we tie incentives to the off season program, but we cant use twist their arms into coming to off season workouts.
In the summer we turn up the heat and do more running/jumping/starting/stopping and change of direction skills. we work much harder on that aspect but the thing is, because its summer, more kids come out to the workouts than during their other sports seasons.
administrators evalute programs by numbers, how many kids participate. Be careful that you dont run kids out of your program and yourself out of a job.
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Post by dubber on May 16, 2015 18:12:44 GMT -6
No, having kids quit doesn't mean anything .
Big question I would ask is how do you feel about the other 35?
Are they better for this?
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Post by silkyice on May 16, 2015 18:21:32 GMT -6
I don't think quitters mean you are doing something right. But it also doesn't mean that you are doing something wrong.
But if you have a lot quit and you are unsuccessful, that might be an indication that you are doing something wrong. Doesn't mean you are, but you certainly need to look.
I will agree with the spirit of the question though. If no one at all is quitting, your program probably isn't as demanding as it should/could be. Football is not everyone.
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Post by jlenwood on May 16, 2015 18:32:56 GMT -6
How many will you end up with come the time to start in August? Will you pick up a few players or still be at 35? How do you feel about the new pick ups if there are any?
I don't think kids quitting validates/not calidates anything, just means football wasn't for the kids who left.
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Post by dytmook on May 17, 2015 19:44:51 GMT -6
I think we've had 1 kid quit that really had a shot to contribute, but even then that year we went to the regional finals and I doubt he would have been the difference. We've lost some big kids that could have help, but they were soft and I have to say we did a lot to try to keep them involved. In the end it's just not for anyone. If you lose a kid who isn't going to contribute ever, that's not a lose, but making sure you don't run off that young guy who's going to maybe be a special teams stud in a few years is the most important thing.
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Post by spartan on May 17, 2015 20:52:54 GMT -6
I struggle with this all the time, their are no points on the line no playoff seeding really nothing to play for. The kids that are fully committed will be there, the kids that want to start will be there the kids who have some interest in football but are busy will be in and out.
So we changed our philosophy, and now we look as spring as a way to develop starters and depth. WE really encourage the back ups to come out because we have a good relationship with our best players so we know they will be there. Kids that love football will naturally be there. WE really and try and get the Depth ready.
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Post by tothehouse on May 17, 2015 21:36:45 GMT -6
Sometimes "quitters" were never part of the team.
Just saying. They sort of worked out. Sort of showed up. Sort of cared. They get the..."are you with us...or sort of with us" conversation from me.
I don't do "sort of" unless there is a big discussion about why. The problem with kids missing early...is their strength numbers in my opinion. There are freaks out there...but if a kid isn't conditioning himself for football he has a bigger chance of getting hurt.
And if you're going to tell the kid off...you can use that reason. "We all need you here to get stronger. To play...on the field Friday nights...you need to be stronger. You're not going to get game ready, strength wise, 2 weeks before the first game".
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Post by freezeoption on May 18, 2015 6:46:03 GMT -6
you've spent more time on here about quitters than i care to, look they quit for many reasons, but a quitter is never fully in, you don't have to do tons of off season to get the quitters out, but today we have to do the off season and summer stuff to keep up, that is how it is, had a ton quit last year, first year program, a lot of kids with no idea what it takes to be part of a team, what hard work is, i bent over backwards to try to keep them, now a quitter is a turd that i flush, see ya, i was hard nosed back in the old days, soften up in the past few years but screwed over last year, not again
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Post by coachmonkey on May 18, 2015 7:09:27 GMT -6
We usually have 50+ plus going into Spring Ball. We have raised the bar and made off season more difficult. We are now entering spring ball with 35 players. Was told made it to hard too early. I disagreed and think quitters validate program. Yes or No? Personally I don't want a single kid to quit. I will baby freshmen and sophomores rather than letting them quit. I have seen some "babies" as Freshman turn into men by their senior year. To me this sounds like the conditioning and track coaches who think making kids puke is a sign of a good workout. 99.9% of the time it's not, just bad coaching and not understanding energy systems. |
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on May 18, 2015 7:30:20 GMT -6
Like others- I'm not out to make anyone quit. But (like others) I am going to treat every kid like they are a potential college football player and hold them all to the same standards. For those fence-sitters, usually we'll lose a couple...maybe 3-5 a year whose heart wasn't fully in it to begin with. I'm ok with that- I always give them a chance to think it over before making the decision.
Had our starting center kirk-out during a rough Monday practice after a sloppy loss- walked off the field etc...So then I start getting calls from parents and admin saying we were verbally/mentally abusing them etc. In the end, Momma thought our actions made him quit, but after meeting with him he stated that he wasn't fully vested in playing football during the summer and his buddies had told him he needed to come out. Should have seen the look on parents faces when he said this...
So to the OP- no, I don't think the # of quitters is a validation- maybe just indicates that your expectations don't currently match the kids' expectations. That's their problem, not yours.
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Post by windigo on May 18, 2015 14:31:06 GMT -6
Each case has to be an individual case. Some kids will quit because they don't like discipline. You can only try so long with those kids.
Other kids will quit because they cant physically take it. Those kids you need to give some ground on. A dough-boy can become a great player if given the time and help they need to get in shape. Inside every dough-boy is a genetic freak waiting to be born. They are endomorphs and endomorphs have the potential for more pure muscle mass and can produce more force when at their peak than mesomorphs. Many of your top heavyweight powerlifters are natural endomorphs.
But too many coaches wash them out. Understand, that those dough-boys go through intense physical pain when they first start heavy exercising especially weight training. And I mean intense, they will suffer DOMS(delayed onset muscle sourness) that literally cripples them. The muscle locks and cannot move for days. And generally they are shy subdued kids so they simply quit and don't voice just how much they are hurting.
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Post by spreadattack on May 18, 2015 16:37:05 GMT -6
Agree with posters above that's it's not inherently good or bad, though thinking it's inherently good might be dangerous. Football (and really, hard work) is not for everyone, though if kids are quitting because you're being unreasonable or unfair is not a good recipe for the program. And as windigo points out, sometimes you can think you're being reasonable but there are issues unique to a kid that make it unfair to him, and a little patience might draw out a special player and a kid who can mature.
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Post by spos21ram on May 18, 2015 17:01:53 GMT -6
Having several kids quit is never a good thing. I don't get how it could be. That's like a teacher saying "yeeeep I run a tight ship. I failed 20 out of 24 kids this semester. That will show them."
A handful of players quitting is normal and on them. When you start getting 8, 10, 12 or more quitting then you need to rethink your policy because it's probably you that's the problem.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
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Post by rsmith627 on May 18, 2015 17:05:01 GMT -6
I teach a straight up elective. I have zero kids enrolled in my Spanish classes next year because I did such an awesome job this year.
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Post by WingTheT on May 21, 2015 11:33:41 GMT -6
I teach a straight up elective. I have zero kids enrolled in my Spanish classes next year because I did such an awesome job this year. So I'm one of few PE teachers at the school I'm at now. Kids (who I have never had in class before) are asking where this certain PE teacher went (the one I replaced for the 2nd semester) and are wanting to sign up for year long PE for next year. They would not be asking that question if they actually had me this semester or my cooperating teacher for that same semester...I like to make my students "earn" their grade, especially in PE. I hate "rolling out the balls" because that doesn't teach the students anything except I'm a lazy teacher and PE = babysitting time.... *The only hand-outs I ever give is the syllabus on Day 1. Hard work is a requirement for my PE class and I'm allergic to excuses. So welcome to my PE class. |
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Post by CanyonCoach on May 21, 2015 11:49:00 GMT -6
I have had 2 of the fastest kids in the school say they are playing soccer next year....not because of spring ball or we made things too difficult. We just hold kids accountable to our expectations in the weight room and at practice. Soccer, at least here, is a joke. They have had kids kicked off of buses, kicked out of tournaments, disqualified for play and the main reason is they have zero expectations. These kids hate being told what to do and are not easy to coach. Tremendous athletes but not coach-able about 75% of the time. I have them as track athletes as well and it is the same story. I do what I want.
We would love for kids to be at camps and we get after kids on a regular basis but we don't cut kids and we hope they all play positive roles in our program.
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Post by rsmith627 on May 21, 2015 12:17:34 GMT -6
I teach a straight up elective. I have zero kids enrolled in my Spanish classes next year because I did such an awesome job this year. So I'm one of few PE teachers at the school I'm at now. Kids (who I have never had in class before) are asking where this certain PE teacher went (the one I replaced for the 2nd semester) and are wanting to sign up for year long PE for next year. They would not be asking that question if they actually had me this semester or my cooperating teacher for that same semester...I like to make my students "earn" their grade, especially in PE. I hate "rolling out the balls" because that doesn't teach the students anything except I'm a lazy teacher and PE = babysitting time.... *The only hand-outs I ever give is the syllabus on Day 1. Hard work is a requirement for my PE class and I'm allergic to excuses. So welcome to my PE class. Obviously I'm kidding here. My classes generally fill up because kids learn a ton in my Spanish class and work hard. Most leave with A's, but they definitely earn them. The ones who don't generally don't last the year. |
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Post by WingTheT on May 21, 2015 13:22:08 GMT -6
Sorry, definitely wasn't directing this towards you or anyone in general. Just venting since it's the last day at my school and kids are going crazy as usual haha. I love and enjoy having my class filled up as long as the students are willing to work and earn their grades. I student taught at a place where the kids were beyond lazy and it was a miracle to have them walk on the track...and this was a lifetime sports and team sports class. So the kids basically signed up to not do anything and fail this PE class. |
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Post by flyinghelmet on May 21, 2015 13:29:12 GMT -6
I don't know if you are doing something right or wrong or not as I have no idea how you run your program. But, quitters happen to every team, every year. These kids are, to me, selfish as all get out, barring a few reasons, such as family or financial issues. I will encourage them to come back, but if they don't, good riddance for the most part. Let them walk away.
Some kids needs football a lot more than football needs them, but sometimes the team counts for a lot more than one individual.
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Post by jcamerot on May 21, 2015 17:51:22 GMT -6
Don't find it particularly satisfying when kids leave the program. I wouldn't change everything that I believe in but I also wouldn't wear it as a badge of honor. Would certainly have some serious interest in talking with each kid and finding out what the reason was for leaving.
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Post by eaglemountie on May 22, 2015 8:13:57 GMT -6
Football isn't for everyone.
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