mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 202
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Post by mc140 on Jul 22, 2015 17:38:14 GMT -6
Kid who is a pretty good football player at a local school told his coach he would have to miss a week of summer workouts to attend on out of state AAU baseball tourney. Coach told him not to come back if he went to the baseball tourney. Of course he went to the baseball tourney. I don't get why coaches put themselves in that position. Its not like he is missing real practice time or sitting at home playing video games.
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Post by silkyice on Jul 22, 2015 18:42:18 GMT -6
Kid who is a pretty good football player at a local school told his coach he would have to miss a week of summer workouts to attend on out of state AAU baseball tourney. Coach told him not to come back if he went to the baseball tourney. Of course he went to the baseball tourney. I don't get why coaches put themselves in that position. Its not like he is missing real practice time or sitting at home playing video games. Is there anymore to this story at all? By going to the AAU tourney does he now miss the required number of workouts or something like that? Do no players miss at all? No one takes a vacation? No one goes on a church trip? No one gets sick? No one goes to a camp? No one gets their wisdom teeth out? No one goes on a church trip? First, I don't get kicking him off at all. We don't have any number to make. Our rule is if you go out of town, let me know first, and you are excused. That doesn't hold for actual practices, but you said this was just workouts. I do understand and respect schools that do have minimum. It works for them, great. Has this kid not made that number? Is there no way to make those up? Was there not a way to do them before he went? Again, we have no minimum and trips are excused, but most of our kids make them up before they even leave or make them up when they get back. And they don't have to. Second, there can't be just extra running after he makes them up? Or a game suspension? Or whatever? He has to be kicked off? There has to be more to this. If not, that coach is doing a disservice to that kid and his team.
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collier
Junior Member
[F4:@kbcollier32]
Posts: 270
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Post by collier on Jul 22, 2015 18:50:38 GMT -6
Agree, if the coach kicked him off, there has to be more to the story.
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Post by fantom on Jul 22, 2015 19:15:16 GMT -6
Not necessarily. It's always possible that the coach is a jerk.
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Post by poundtherock1 on Jul 22, 2015 20:17:20 GMT -6
Had a kid come in today and inform us that he would be missing August 1st to play in a baseball game. I'm never one to shoot a kid down or tell him not to play a sport, play everything for all I care, but I was looking at a kid who will not be going to school to play a sport. So why are you going out of town to play in a baseball game on the first day of practice??
Our captions were pissed to say the least. Suggested at the least a game suspension. I was glad to hear that from them.
Not a scrub either, was going to be our first RT going into camp.
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Post by realdawg on Jul 23, 2015 8:33:16 GMT -6
If he was missing a summer workout I wouldn't say much as long as his attendance had been consistent the rest of the summer. If it's an official practice he'd be missing PT.
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DLgaDC
Freshmen Member
Posts: 80
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Post by DLgaDC on Jul 23, 2015 8:40:08 GMT -6
Haven't you guys heard that every baseball player is going to play in the MLB!!!! It's just a different time kids commit when it's convenient to their schedules and the parents back them up. If you make a kid choose be ready because they will. Coaches have to be willing to work with those kids or you will lose them.
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Post by WingTheT on Jul 26, 2015 20:00:23 GMT -6
Our HC definitely encourages our guys to be active and we have a good amount of kids who are multi-sport athletes. Baseball is the biggest one where we have guys who miss some of spring practice as well as some weeks of June for baseball and such.
However, the HC is in contact with the other coaches of the others sports such as baseball & basketball so he knows if these kids are really participating or if they're "playing in a baseball tournament" in their basement on their video game console.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 27, 2015 9:54:01 GMT -6
Not necessarily. It's always possible that the coach is a jerk. Agreed. It wouldn't surprised if he was just an a$$. Honestly, even if there is something else behind the story, kicking a kid off of the team for participating in another sport is wrong. We have always emphasized playing another sport ABOVE hitting the weight room. Yes, we want the kids doing football workouts but the benefits of playing another sport outweigh the weight room time, physically, emotionally and socially. We've never kicked a kid off of the team in the off-season... The statement itself is an oxymoron because IT'S THE OFF-SEASON! The kids get three unexcused practices during a season and then they're gone. There's no physical punishment for it; they get their three and then they're told not to come back. I'm a S&C guy, through and through, but I have never understood programs that set a make off-season workouts "mandatory"... When I was an HC, we tied off-season workouts (practices in other sports and school weight training classes count as workouts) to being a captain, lettering and post-season honors. Long story short, we had an OT who was very good and helped us out immensely but he was lucky didn't show up for off-season workouts. He started every game for us but he we didn't let him be a captain, we didn't letter him, and he wasn't eligible for any all-conference and all-state honors. The other coaches in the conference tried to nominate him for an all-state spot but I shot it down. On the flip side of the coin, our senior captain/FB who made most of the off-season workouts made the all-conference team. Every kid signed a contract the week after the season was over, stating that they understood the policy and I reminded our stud OT every other day of it and he made his choice. All he needed to do was sign up for weight training class and give us two-three hours a week of his time during the summer but he wouldn't do it. This policy barely made it past the administration so I have no idea how people get away with kicking kids off of the team for not working out in the off-season.
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Post by ksmitty79 on Jul 27, 2015 10:12:58 GMT -6
Here is a good one. Coming back from a 7 on 7 our starting Varsity QB tells the Head Coach he is going to miss game week 2 as his parents have planned a vacation to see family in New York. Not to mention this the first week of actual school.. Parents...!!
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Post by coachcb on Jul 27, 2015 10:27:30 GMT -6
Here is a good one. Coming back from a 7 on 7 our starting Varsity QB tells the Head Coach he is going to miss game week 2 as his parents have planned a vacation to see family in New York. Not to mention this the first week of actual school.. Parents...!! We'd tell the boy and the parents that they just hit the vacation jack-pot; he has the whole fall for some R and R. Missing a game for anything other than an emergency or death in the family is unacceptable, PERIOD. I've accepted less commitment out of kids during the off-season for many reasons. But, in-season is a different story; he and his parents need to commit to football during the season. It's unfortunate that mom and dad are making a bad decision for the boy but the needs of the team outweigh the wants of his parents.
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Post by silkyice on Jul 27, 2015 11:25:34 GMT -6
coachcb,
A little Dr. Jeckyll and Mr Hyde going on. Just ribbing you.
One minute, Mr. Softie, next Mr. Hardtail. I am laughing at myself and you and everybody because we all think we have it figured out, but I disagree with all of it, but think it is all ok also. Hard to explain what I mean, and trust me, I am picking on myself here also.
Here is what I disagree with, but also think you make very valid points.
First, I do not think the benefits of playing another sport outweight the weight room physically or emotionally. Not even close. Can maybe give you socially. Physically, the best thing they can do is be in the weight room. Emotionally, they need time off from playing. This kid is a least a two sport athlete. Playing football, then going into baseball season from Jan (maybe even Dec) until August and then starting football is not what this kid needs emotionally. That definitely leads to burnout. One could argue that lifting weights could burn him out also. We lift twice a week and if they go out of town, they are excused. No burnout here. Also, it is baseball. I promise you baseball is not helping him physically. I promise. Baseball was my best sport by the way, and my two sons play. Not a baseball hater.
Back to socially, playing baseball all summer will not help him "socially" on the football team.
This is a football forum, so for football, missing weights and playing baseball is not what is best for his football. Not even close. In fact, it isn't what is even best for his baseball. Alas, I do care about the kid and the whole child. Play baseball all you want. But still lift, it can be done and should be done, and half my football team does it and does both at a high level.
Your football players get three unexcused football practice abscences? They can just miss practice, no questions? WTH??? But, dumb butt parents schedule a vacation during the season and he is now off the team? No big time problem with this. Not how I would handle it, but it so polar opposite of play baseball and don't worry about weights and just miss three practices whenever you want, that I don't even know what to say.
And the point about if you don't show up to weights means you can't be captain or all-conference, those kids that would not care enough to lift, sure as heck don't give a crap about being captain or all-conference during the summer while they are just sleeping in or swimming. Maybe it is just me, but being named captain or all-state is just something nice. It is something people vote on. Give me something real like playing and winning.
In summary, I let the kid go to the AAU tournament and don't blink an eye. Coach is stupid for kicking him off. We both agree here. Weights is the most important athlete can do in the summer in my opinion. We disagree here. Kids cannot miss summer weights when they want. They have to notify me and be going out of town or something similar. Make it up if possible. Sounds like we disagree. No way in heck can a kid just miss actual football practice without consequences and I sure would never just give them three excused whenever they want. Big disagreement. Kid misses game because of parents vacation? Extra game of suspension and makeup running. Not starting the next game. But not kicking him off. But don't really think you kicking that kid off if it happened to you is wrong, though. Just not what I would do.
Here is why I think this is funny, I think I am right, you think you are right, and I bet another coach thinks some of my points make me sound like a genius and then another make me sound like an idiot. To you, I probably sound like Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. Lol. It just struck me as funny today.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 27, 2015 12:08:54 GMT -6
coachcb, A little Dr. Jeckyll and Mr Hyde going on. Just ribbing you. One minute, Mr. Softie, next Mr. Hardtail. I am laughing at myself and you and everybody because we all think we have it figured out, but I disagree with all of it, but think it is all ok also. Hard to explain what I mean, and trust me, I am picking on myself here also. Here is what I disagree with, but also think you make very valid points. First, I do not think the benefits of playing another sport outweight the weight room physically or emotionally. Not even close. Can maybe give you socially. Physically, the best thing they can do is be in the weight room. Emotionally, they need time off from playing. This kid is a least a two sport athlete. Playing football, then going into baseball season from Jan (maybe even Dec) until August and then starting football is not what this kid needs emotionally. That definitely leads to burnout. One could argue that lifting weights could burn him out also. We lift twice a week and if they go out of town, they are excused. No burnout here. Also, it is baseball. I promise you baseball is not helping him physically. I promise. Baseball was my best sport by the way, and my two sons play. Not a baseball hater. Back to socially, playing baseball all summer will not help him "socially" on the football team. This is a football forum, so for football, missing weights and playing baseball is not what is best for his football. Not even close. In fact, it isn't what is even best for his baseball. Alas, I do care about the kid and the whole child. Play baseball all you want. But still lift, it can be done and should be done, and half my football team does it and does both at a high level. Your football players get three unexcused football practice abscences? They can just miss practice, no questions? WTH??? But, dumb butt parents schedule a vacation during the season and he is now off the team? No big time problem with this. Not how I would handle it, but it so polar opposite of play baseball and don't worry about weights and just miss three practices whenever you want, that I don't even know what to say. And the point about if you don't show up to weights means you can't be captain or all-conference, those kids that would not care enough to lift, sure as heck don't give a crap about being captain or all-conference during the summer while they are just sleeping in or swimming. Maybe it is just me, but being named captain or all-state is just something nice. It is something people vote on. Give me something real like playing and winning. In summary, I let the kid go to the AAU tournament and don't blink an eye. Coach is stupid for kicking him off. We both agree here. Weights is the most important athlete can do in the summer in my opinion. We disagree here. Kids cannot miss summer weights when they want. They have to notify me and be going out of town or something similar. Make it up if possible. Sounds like we disagree. No way in heck can a kid just miss actual football practice without consequences and I sure would never just give them three excused whenever they want. Big disagreement. Kid misses game because of parents vacation? Extra game of suspension and makeup running. Not starting the next game. But not kicking him off. But don't really think you kicking that kid off if it happened to you is wrong, though. Just not what I would do. Here is why I think this is funny, I think I am right, you think you are right, and I bet another coach thinks some of my points make me sound like a genius and then another make me sound like an idiot. To you, I probably sound like Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde. Lol. It just struck me as funny today. Like I said, silky, I treat the off-season differently than in-season. I have yet to coach in a program that would let us kick a kid from the team for missing off-season weight training. When I was an HC, I tried several things to get the kids going in the weight room but the worst I could do to them was take away captain status, a letter, and off-season awards. And, even that was iffy, hence why I left that HC position and haven't looked back. But, again, I haven't coached in a program that allowed us to be hard nosed about it. Like I said, I'm a S&C guy, through and through but I push playing other sports over the weight room because I have only coached in one program that got solid participation in both. Plus, I do believe that playing other sports benefits the kids more than weight training as it emphasizes teamwork and competitiveness, along making them better physically Obviously, I want them hitting the weights and playing a sport but I'll take playing another sport if I have to choose between the two. Here's the details of the thee day rule. The first unexcused absence equals a ton of running. The second unexcused absence equals a ton of running PLUS not playing that week. You miss a third time, don't come back. I'm a hard-a$$ during the season because I have never been able to be so during the off-season. In my HC tenures, the parents have gotten our off-season and in-season schedule mailed out to the several times during the year and the kids have had it sent home with them. I also send home my in-season expectations; missing a game for anything than an emergency means you're kicked off of the team. So, mom and dad have a year to plan their vacation knowing full and well that their son is expected to be at the game.
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Post by silkyice on Jul 27, 2015 15:57:29 GMT -6
Like I said, silky, I treat the off-season differently than in-season. I have yet to coach in a program that would let us kick a kid from the team for missing off-season weight training. When I was an HC, I tried several things to get the kids going in the weight room but the worst I could do to them was take away captain status, a letter, and off-season awards. And, even that was iffy, hence why I left that HC position and haven't looked back. But, again, I haven't coached in a program that allowed us to be hard nosed about it. Like I said, I'm a S&C guy, through and through but I push playing other sports over the weight room because I have only coached in one program that got solid participation in both. Plus, I do believe that playing other sports benefits the kids more than weight training as it emphasizes teamwork and competitiveness, along making them better physically Obviously, I want them hitting the weights and playing a sport but I'll take playing another sport if I have to choose between the two. Here's the details of the thee day rule. The first unexcused absence equals a ton of running. The second unexcused absence equals a ton of running PLUS not playing that week. You miss a third time, don't come back. I'm a hard-a$$ during the season because I have never been able to be so during the off-season. In my HC tenures, the parents have gotten our off-season and in-season schedule mailed out to the several times during the year and the kids have had it sent home with them. I also send home my in-season expectations; missing a game for anything than an emergency means you're kicked off of the team. So, mom and dad have a year to plan their vacation knowing full and well that their son is expected to be at the game. Good post and glad I made my post, because you provided a lot of good context and cleared up some misconceptions I had. I thought they could just miss three times during the season no consequences. I get it now. I also get what you are saying about the off season with your hands tied. You also completely communicate everything with the kids and parents. I still disagree about which is better for them during the summer, speed/strength training or playing ball. But you make some excellent and valid points and in reality what we are disagreeing on is moot, because what both we want is for them to do both. Thank you for your post.
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Post by teachcoach on Jul 27, 2015 21:12:15 GMT -6
In Illinois MC140, off season cannot be used to determine if a student athlete is on a team... could be grounds for the kid.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 28, 2015 9:03:02 GMT -6
Like I said, silky, I treat the off-season differently than in-season. I have yet to coach in a program that would let us kick a kid from the team for missing off-season weight training. When I was an HC, I tried several things to get the kids going in the weight room but the worst I could do to them was take away captain status, a letter, and off-season awards. And, even that was iffy, hence why I left that HC position and haven't looked back. But, again, I haven't coached in a program that allowed us to be hard nosed about it. Like I said, I'm a S&C guy, through and through but I push playing other sports over the weight room because I have only coached in one program that got solid participation in both. Plus, I do believe that playing other sports benefits the kids more than weight training as it emphasizes teamwork and competitiveness, along making them better physically Obviously, I want them hitting the weights and playing a sport but I'll take playing another sport if I have to choose between the two. Here's the details of the thee day rule. The first unexcused absence equals a ton of running. The second unexcused absence equals a ton of running PLUS not playing that week. You miss a third time, don't come back. I'm a hard-a$$ during the season because I have never been able to be so during the off-season. In my HC tenures, the parents have gotten our off-season and in-season schedule mailed out to the several times during the year and the kids have had it sent home with them. I also send home my in-season expectations; missing a game for anything than an emergency means you're kicked off of the team. So, mom and dad have a year to plan their vacation knowing full and well that their son is expected to be at the game. Good post and glad I made my post, because you provided a lot of good context and cleared up some misconceptions I had. I thought they could just miss three times during the season no consequences. I get it now. I also get what you are saying about the off season with your hands tied. You also completely communicate everything with the kids and parents. I still disagree about which is better for them during the summer, speed/strength training or playing ball. But you make some excellent and valid points and in reality what we are disagreeing on is moot, because what both we want is for them to do both. Thank you for your post. No problem silky. Good to be back on the forums as it's been awhile for me. Part of my thought process regarding the weight room versus other sports stems from the mass-specialization that we have all seen over the last few years. In my experience, there are fewer and fewer kids playing multiple sports; we're not seeing kids playing football, doing basketball or wrestling in the winter and then jumping on to track or baseball in the spring. As such, I am seeing fewer and fewer kids that know how to make a firm commitment to something, stick with it and bust their humps trying to get better. We all love our weight room warriors, don't get me wrong. But, it doesn't took much for a kid to pop into the weight room for three to four hours a week or take a high school weight training class. It does take a lot of determination for kids to stick out several sport seasons during a year (especially if they're hitting the weights) and these kids develop the psychological drive that we love to see. We all want to have physical, strong kids; that's just a given. BUT, I will take a kid that's developed a strong will to compete through playing other sports before I take the weight room beast. The multi-sport kids are generally more coachable, more intrinsically motivated and just plain tougher. Yes, you can impart a competitive drive and intrinsic motivation in off-season workouts but not in the same way competing in another sport does. Yes, you are correct, kids do get burned out playing multiple sports and we've all seen that. NOW, with that being said, baseball drives me insane around here.. Absolutely dcohio insane.. The Legion baseball programs in this state run seasons that are too long and schedule too many games. The kids start out the season getting into shape and working but they're sitting on their butts in the dugout for the last two thirds of the season. Yes, the kids continue to develop a competitive drive but they're not pushed very hard physically so they walk into football season out of shape and have lost work ethic because they've spent time sitting in the ball park, not practicing. I have never been a very popular guy with the Legion baseball coaches in most of the areas I have coached because I get after the baseball players hard about getting into the weight room. I know that they're just lounging around, eating seeds for two and a half months and I don't like giving them off-season workout credit for it. But, I can't put in the contracts and information that all sports practices count as workouts EXCEPT Legion baseball. There's been several years where Legion baseball has spilled over into football season and we've had to "accommodate" those kids missing August practice.
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