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Post by coach2013 on Aug 2, 2015 5:37:25 GMT -6
Don't paint yourself into a corner.
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Post by jlenwood on Aug 2, 2015 5:47:08 GMT -6
I get the captain eligibility. I do not understand nor do I see how you have a leg to stand on with the lettering or post season honors such all conference or all state. Those awards are about in season performance, how can you justify holding the best player in the conference off of the team because he only made 70% of workouts and even moreso, how are you going to get an administration to side with you when their contribution to the team was clearly above others (as it typically is with all state and all conference opponents)? With that you are sending the message that, you are valuable enough for me to feed the rock to but not valuable enough to get credit for your contribution. 2. Post season accolades are a part of the process because I view them as an extension of the team and the program. Yes, the athlete may have had a very good season and produced but it wasn't all on them; it was a team effort. They weren't successful on their own; they were successful because the kids around them did their job. So, again, it gets back to making a commitment to the the team. We had a very good guard/DE who was nominated by every coach in the conference for all-conference. I shot it down because the kid didn't attend a single off-season workout and was a dominating force because of his genetics and because everyone around him hit the weights and did their job. Mom and dad were furious and came up with a multitude of excuses for their baby boy but they also signed the contract stating that they understood the rules. You know, not to get into any kind of political, or deep "what's wrong with our society" type of conversation here....but this kind of thought process to me just screams "let's make it all fair and level the playing field". If you are coaching basketball and you have a center who is a 6' 11" man child dominating the league, yet he didn't attend off-season stuff, do you say it's not fair he is genetically gifted so he doesn't deserve any accolades? I get you are trying to send the message to the team that it takes a team, but if the kid performed at a level that everyone in the league deemed "all league" worthy is just not right in my mind. The bottom line is some people are just better than others at the task at hand without having to do as much work. You guys are teachers, don't you have students who are academically gifted to the point they can just show up and excel in the classroom? My sons are examples of this. One son has to study his a$$ off (comparable to the off-season workout example) and the other doesn't (the kid missing off-season), yet the non-studier is a brainiac (definitely a gift from mom and not dad). Do I hold back the more gifted son and say, no college money for you because you are just smarter and don't have to work so hard? Not arguing with you, just a different point of view. We have all had those guys, if you coach at the small school, who show up after missing off-season and are just better. My POV is to just accept it for what it is and move on.
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Post by coach2013 on Aug 2, 2015 6:02:45 GMT -6
Its called trying to find LEVERAGE to get a kid to actually care enough to work HARD to WIN, not just start.
Whats really wrong right now is that complacency, being ok with average or being ok with "good enough" is running amok.
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Post by fcboiler87 on Aug 2, 2015 8:46:56 GMT -6
This is my first year as HC at a program that's been pretty good recently. I thought by the recent success, these summer attendance issues would be small. I was way off. The culture was much less than what I expected. We have been working hard on changing the mindset and getting them to understand what it takes to compete and be successful against the teams we play.
We had a kid who probably was going to start for us quit the other day. I haven't seen him since last season, save for a few days here and there and none this summer. I asked him why he didn't want to play. His response was that the other players were giving him crap about not being there all summer and that he'd have to earn his way because they all had.
I hate to lose such a kid, but at the same time I wasn't real mad because it showed that many of them are starting to get it. Don't get me wrong, if the kid decided he wanted to play, we'd let him and have him earn his way. I just don't see it because of the poor attitude he has (more than just what I described).
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Post by freezeoption on Aug 2, 2015 9:30:25 GMT -6
I don't have the numbers to not play guys that don't show up, been we start hitting and I put a kid up against one that didn't lift, if the one that lifts kicks his butt I will make sure to comment should have been in the weight room, we are very small, we just started football, getting the mindset to be in the weight room will take some time, my younger ones have done real well, the ones that haven't gotten the weights in before school starts will not get their stripe for their helmet, my super was getting after me about their not being many hs kids at weights, he is new, I said these kids have been use to years of not having to do anything extra to play, I am working on it, the younger ones get it and that is where we build
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Post by newhope on Aug 2, 2015 10:19:26 GMT -6
In many states, there is technically nothing you can do. Offseason workouts, including summers, can not be mandatory. If you don't let kids play who don't attend, you are risking big problems. Obviously, you can keep them on the team and limit their playing time. It's a tough place to be in. On one hand, you need to be successful in order to get them to realilze the importance of attending offseason workouts, but you also need them to be at workouts in order to be successful. Most of us have been there at one point or another. The fortunate ones manage to win without them and it ceases to be a problem. Unfortunately, easier said than done.
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Post by coach2013 on Aug 2, 2015 10:27:54 GMT -6
Career tip- you start losing kids that ADs/Principals/school boards expect to see on the field because of your own ill conceived policy and you will need to polish and shine your resume.
Been there, done that and still have the tee shirt to prove it.
Quite simply- numbers are often used as an evaluation tool.
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Post by lions23 on Aug 2, 2015 19:06:56 GMT -6
We reward all off season stuff. Nothing is "punished". You want first dibs at equipment picking your number eating first getting the "reward" shirts and sweatshirts get to workouts.
The best ones we have are helmet stickers. You don't get them if you didn't do the off season stuff. When you go out on the field without your stripe or decal people ask. The kids find this to be the biggest deal. Our very best player last year didn't get his decal. It's an honor to earn it.
He did not earn it but we sure as hell weren't keeping him from playing.
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Post by CS on Aug 2, 2015 19:21:12 GMT -6
I don't understand why you would lose a great player because he doesn't come to weights. Yeah it would piss me off probably but I'm not going to lose a kid who could win me games because of ego.
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Post by silkyice on Aug 2, 2015 20:00:54 GMT -6
Here is how you get kids to show up in the summer.
1) Show them results. Kids respond to results. Heck, we all do. When they see their bench, squat, clean, and vertical go up, and their 40 and 5/10/5 go down, they will WANT to workout and be there.
2) You get them 9 months of the year. They have to workout then. This is where you show them the results.
3) Make sure you are doing workouts instead of wearouts. You want me to get absolutely worn out and puke 4 days a week for 4 hours a day and then not really see any results beside me getting smaller? Forget that. I ain't coming either. Getting teenage boys strong and faster is not difficult. 4) Be reasonable. There are church camps, vacations, family reunions, basketball games, and baseball games during the summer. We excuse anything out of town. They have to let me know first. But there is no number to make. Most of kids want to makeup before they miss or when they get back in town.
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Post by hback41 on Aug 2, 2015 20:24:11 GMT -6
We had a former NBA player as the head bball coach at a school where i used to work. He paid kids to come to summer workouts and games. Do I need to say that he wasn't very successful?
Sent from my SM-G900V using proboards
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Post by dytmook on Aug 3, 2015 16:52:37 GMT -6
We get 10 camp days in the summer on top of normal workouts. None of this is mandatory, but obviously we want kids to be there. This year was especially important as we are starting from square one in many respects as we lost a lot unexpectedly in June. Those who left showed why we were 5-5 last year. I digress but the kids who don't show to camp days it shows. We don't have to numbers to get rid up them, but we'll need them in the future.
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Post by coachcb on Aug 5, 2015 14:54:37 GMT -6
2. Post season accolades are a part of the process because I view them as an extension of the team and the program. Yes, the athlete may have had a very good season and produced but it wasn't all on them; it was a team effort. They weren't successful on their own; they were successful because the kids around them did their job. So, again, it gets back to making a commitment to the the team. We had a very good guard/DE who was nominated by every coach in the conference for all-conference. I shot it down because the kid didn't attend a single off-season workout and was a dominating force because of his genetics and because everyone around him hit the weights and did their job. Mom and dad were furious and came up with a multitude of excuses for their baby boy but they also signed the contract stating that they understood the rules. You know, not to get into any kind of political, or deep "what's wrong with our society" type of conversation here....but this kind of thought process to me just screams "let's make it all fair and level the playing field". If you are coaching basketball and you have a center who is a 6' 11" man child dominating the league, yet he didn't attend off-season stuff, do you say it's not fair he is genetically gifted so he doesn't deserve any accolades? I get you are trying to send the message to the team that it takes a team, but if the kid performed at a level that everyone in the league deemed "all league" worthy is just not right in my mind. The bottom line is some people are just better than others at the task at hand without having to do as much work. You guys are teachers, don't you have students who are academically gifted to the point they can just show up and excel in the classroom? My sons are examples of this. One son has to study his a$$ off (comparable to the off-season workout example) and the other doesn't (the kid missing off-season), yet the non-studier is a brainiac (definitely a gift from mom and not dad). Do I hold back the more gifted son and say, no college money for you because you are just smarter and don't have to work so hard? Not arguing with you, just a different point of view. We have all had those guys, if you coach at the small school, who show up after missing off-season and are just better. My POV is to just accept it for what it is and move on. I get what you're saying and I've had the discussion before. There are some places where I wouldn't dream of keeping all-state accolades from a kid who was doing their job. But, this wasn't one of those places. Numbers had dwindled to the point where it looked like we were going to lose the program (8-man ball). As such, I took some pretty drastic measures to try and get things turned around. I knew that getting things turned around would require the kids to work as a team in a hurry so I instituted some draconian policies. Whether they worked or not is still up for debate; they still have a program and we won a few games so those are pluses. Lol, I didn't even get a chance to implement these policies in my second HC gig; I was gone after a year.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 5, 2015 15:41:22 GMT -6
I get the captain eligibility. I do not understand nor do I see how you have a leg to stand on with the lettering or post season honors such all conference or all state. Those awards are about in season performance, how can you justify holding the best player in the conference off of the team because he only made 70% of workouts and even moreso, how are you going to get an administration to side with you when their contribution to the team was clearly above others (as it typically is with all state and all conference opponents)? With that you are sending the message that, you are valuable enough for me to feed the rock to but not valuable enough to get credit for your contribution. Here's what I do in regards to that...In our league the coaches choose who gets in the All Star team. Unless that kid is an absolute stud, I am not going to put him on an all star team if he doesn't make many off season workouts. I'll try to get as many kids on the all star team who do attend and I make sure to remind the other kids that it is the kids who ARE making the workouts that are all stars. It helps that the kids think the other coaches pick our All Stars. Then it's not really an all-star team. One of the things I HATED as a head coach was going to the all-Conference meeting and listening to the horse trading..."you vote for my guy, I'll vote for your guy." Post-season awards should be for kids who clearly earned those by merit of their individual performance.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 5, 2015 15:47:27 GMT -6
2. Post season accolades are a part of the process because I view them as an extension of the team and the program. Yes, the athlete may have had a very good season and produced but it wasn't all on them; it was a team effort. They weren't successful on their own; they were successful because the kids around them did their job. So, again, it gets back to making a commitment to the the team. We had a very good guard/DE who was nominated by every coach in the conference for all-conference. I shot it down because the kid didn't attend a single off-season workout and was a dominating force because of his genetics and because everyone around him hit the weights and did their job. Mom and dad were furious and came up with a multitude of excuses for their baby boy but they also signed the contract stating that they understood the rules. You know, not to get into any kind of political, or deep "what's wrong with our society" type of conversation here....but this kind of thought process to me just screams "let's make it all fair and level the playing field". If you are coaching basketball and you have a center who is a 6' 11" man child dominating the league, yet he didn't attend off-season stuff, do you say it's not fair he is genetically gifted so he doesn't deserve any accolades? I get you are trying to send the message to the team that it takes a team, but if the kid performed at a level that everyone in the league deemed "all league" worthy is just not right in my mind. The bottom line is some people are just better than others at the task at hand without having to do as much work. You guys are teachers, don't you have students who are academically gifted to the point they can just show up and excel in the classroom? My sons are examples of this. One son has to study his a$$ off (comparable to the off-season workout example) and the other doesn't (the kid missing off-season), yet the non-studier is a brainiac (definitely a gift from mom and not dad). Do I hold back the more gifted son and say, no college money for you because you are just smarter and don't have to work so hard? Not arguing with you, just a different point of view. We have all had those guys, if you coach at the small school, who show up after missing off-season and are just better. My POV is to just accept it for what it is and move on. Actually, when I read the part of the post you have highlighted, I immediately thought of Coach Nickerson blackballing Stef in "All the Right Moves".
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Post by fballcoachg on Aug 5, 2015 16:24:04 GMT -6
All state isn't "best teammate" award, it's the best players. Give your players awards that recognize the hard work and don't give that player your team awards...I'm just struggling to see the purpose of denying awards for performance. And I am all team but all state kids are all state kids, we can talk all about 11 guys and what not but those cats are players regardless.
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Post by coachvann on Aug 6, 2015 22:12:59 GMT -6
Isn't this what JV is for? Small program...I don't have #s for jv
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Post by ccscoach on Aug 7, 2015 4:42:27 GMT -6
Don't worry about it. Focus on the kids that came to work outs. Get them better and don't worry about it.
You have to play your best players in my mind or you lose credibility with the kids. The kids know who the best players are anyway. So if you don't play those kids you're a harder @$$ but also an idiot in there eyes. Not sure if one is better than the other.
Until you build a better culture you'll struggle a bit. Focus on attendance during the season. Build your culture and go from there.
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