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Post by 60zgo on Feb 14, 2016 10:16:55 GMT -6
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2016 10:43:18 GMT -6
I am pretty divided on my thoughts regarding IMG. On one hand, it really seems to just turn the idea of schoolage athletics on its head. Particularly team sports. On the other though, assuming the academic side is legit I can't really see many disadvantages to the kids themselves (other than accelerating the aging process, and losing some of their "childhood")
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Post by 44dlcoach on Feb 14, 2016 11:06:24 GMT -6
If the classes are legit then I assume it's not that much different than the national power private schools when you get right down to it.
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Post by 60zgo on Feb 14, 2016 11:16:32 GMT -6
I am pretty divided on my thoughts regarding IMG. On one hand, it really seems to just turn the idea of schoolage athletics on its head. Particularly team sports. On the other though, assuming the academic side is legit I can't really see many disadvantages to the kids themselves (other than accelerating the aging process, and losing some of their "childhood") I can't see a disadvantage for the kid especially if he is like Dylan Moses, a true big time talent. It obviously creates a great bridge for the athlete to go from high school and transition to an elite college environment. As the HS coach you may have invested years into him and bam he is gone without warning to some out of state entity. These guys might be the first, but they won't be the last.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2016 11:18:20 GMT -6
If the classes are legit then I assume it's not that much different than the national power private schools when you get right down to it. I have to disagree completely. The "national power private schools" (a few with which I am pretty familiar, Curtis, Evangel etc) Are just traditional private high schools that happen to enjoy circumstances that allow them to have outlier type success in the athletic field they choose. Those two are small christian schools in large metro areas where the public school system suffers from the expected influence of poverty and breakdown of the family unit. While large portion of the enrollment participates in extra curricular activities, I would not say that the majority of students attend "national power private schools" to participate in sports, and that if for some strange reason football (or athletics in general) were outlawed at all schools the enrollment of those schools would remain basically the same. Contrast that with IMG, where apparently the sole purpose of the school is to educate athletes with great future potential. It started in the individual sports, and now they have a football team. They are a boarding school that markets around the world, and tuition is 70,000, and they are an offshoot of a sports agency.
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Post by 33coach on Feb 14, 2016 11:21:38 GMT -6
The problem, I have heard, for IMG is no one wants to play them.
No schedule, no sport.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2016 11:24:05 GMT -6
The problem, I have heard, for IMG is no one wants to play them. No schedule, no sport. Yep, that would be the way to "combat" them if you are a regular old HS coach/program.
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Post by 60zgo on Feb 14, 2016 12:07:22 GMT -6
They got 10 last year... There are programs with their own scheduling issues that will play them.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2016 12:11:57 GMT -6
They got 10 last year... There are programs with their own scheduling issues that will play them. I think it was 9, one team forfeited prior to playing. I would be interested to see if those schools that do play them have recurring matches if a few of their players start to attend IMG or if IMG continues to grow. Particularly playing IMG at home. Doesn't seem like the greatest idea to bring your kids to them on a platter. Would also be interested in seeing when those games were originally contracted.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 12:25:35 GMT -6
I am pretty divided on my thoughts regarding IMG. On one hand, it really seems to just turn the idea of schoolage athletics on its head. Particularly team sports. On the other though, assuming the academic side is legit I can't really see many disadvantages to the kids themselves (other than accelerating the aging process, and losing some of their "childhood") I can't see a disadvantage for the kid especially if he is like Dylan Moses, a true big time talent. It obviously creates a great bridge for the athlete to go from high school and transition to an elite college environment. As the HS coach you may have invested years into him and bam he is gone without warning to some out of state entity. These guys might be the first, but they won't be the last. And that is the thing... IMG is just a harbinger of things to come. As long as they aren't competing for state championships against public schools, I'm not going to get too upset, but IMG galls me. From what I understand, the academic side of things there is pretty much a joke.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2016 12:30:16 GMT -6
As long as they aren't competing for state championships against public schools, I'm not going to get too upset, but IMG galls me. From what I understand, the academic side of things there is pretty much a joke. Where have you gotten that info? That, to me, is the biggest upside for the kids attending, AND in my opinion, IMG's best marketing opportunity. They can tell the parents/kids "Hey, we are looking to develop YOU. The WHOLE you. We aren't just here for football, even if YOU are because they aren't competing for those state titles and other things. Lets face it, they aren't really going to lose very much if at all. So without that pressure, they really (just my opinion) would be foolish to not concentrate on the overall development of the kids. Seems to me that one of the main reasons for the school is to establish life long relationships with potential future stars that they will then represent.
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Post by dytmook on Feb 14, 2016 12:32:16 GMT -6
I don't like it, but if I were a parent I wouldn't be against the exposure they could get my child I guess. Do guys get bigger offers from going there? I mean if you're good enough to go there you would imagine a college coach could see you're good. Maybe I just haven't had a kid that good yet though.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Feb 14, 2016 12:35:52 GMT -6
If the classes are legit then I assume it's not that much different than the national power private schools when you get right down to it. I have to disagree completely. The "national power private schools" (a few with which I am pretty familiar, Curtis, Evangel etc) Are just traditional private high schools that happen to enjoy circumstances that allow them to have outlier type success in the athletic field they choose. Those two are small christian schools in large metro areas where the public school system suffers from the expected influence of poverty and breakdown of the family unit. While large portion of the enrollment participates in extra curricular activities, I would not say that the majority of students attend "national power private schools" to participate in sports, and that if for some strange reason football (or athletics in general) were outlawed at all schools the enrollment of those schools would remain basically the same. Contrast that with IMG, where apparently the sole purpose of the school is to educate athletes with great future potential. It started in the individual sports, and now they have a football team. They are a boarding school that markets around the world, and tuition is 70,000, and they are an offshoot of a sports agency. I don't disagree with what you're saying here, I guess my perspective, which I didn't state clearly, is that I don't think the football program at IMG is much different than those at some of these private school powers. We've got a national power in our state and a very good percentage of their top players each year didn't play their freshman year in our state, let alone at that school. Some are what you alluded to in another post, they were on an opposing team from another state one year, then they "moved" to our state and enrolled at this school the next year. The top football players by and large seem to be going there mainly to play football and to get seen by college scouts. And I dont blame them, they play a national schedule, go against other D1 players in practice and games all the time, and by all accounts the school provides an excellent education. But with the amount of out of state transferring going on I think that their football program specifically is alot closer to being IMG than it is to being a "normal HS" like the program I'm at.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2016 12:39:12 GMT -6
I don't disagree with what you're saying here, I guess my perspective, which I didn't state clearly, is that I don't think the football program at IMG is much different than those at some of these private school powers. We've got a national power in our state and a very good percentage of their top players each year didn't play their freshman year in our state, let alone at that school. The top football players by and large seem to be going there mainly to play football and to get seen by college scouts. I think that their football program specifically is alot closer to being IMG than it is to being the program I'm at. Interesting, and a much different experience with national private power than I have had.
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Post by 33coach on Feb 14, 2016 12:45:48 GMT -6
As long as they aren't competing for state championships against public schools, I'm not going to get too upset, but IMG galls me. From what I understand, the academic side of things there is pretty much a joke. Where have you gotten that info? That, to me, is the biggest upside for the kids attending, AND in my opinion, IMG's best marketing opportunity. They can tell the parents/kids "Hey, we are looking to develop YOU. The WHOLE you. We aren't just here for football, even if YOU are because they aren't competing for those state titles and other things. Lets face it, they aren't really going to lose very much if at all. So without that pressure, they really (just my opinion) would be foolish to not concentrate on the overall development of the kids. Seems to me that one of the main reasons for the school is to establish life long relationships with potential future stars that they will then represent. id love to see their academic approach. i mean lets face it, these kids are trying to go Alabama, and Ohio, not MIT - and going for communications degrees.....(no offense to my SoLA - Comms majors out there). so i get they dont have to strive for 4+ GPAs... but it would be interesting to see what "passing" is there.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Feb 14, 2016 12:48:07 GMT -6
I don't disagree with what you're saying here, I guess my perspective, which I didn't state clearly, is that I don't think the football program at IMG is much different than those at some of these private school powers. We've got a national power in our state and a very good percentage of their top players each year didn't play their freshman year in our state, let alone at that school. The top football players by and large seem to be going there mainly to play football and to get seen by college scouts. I think that their football program specifically is alot closer to being IMG than it is to being the program I'm at. Interesting, and a much different experience with national private power than I have had. This school may very well be incredibly unique, they also have better athletic facilities than any of the college teams in a state with two D1 teams. They've got an enormous amount of donations from 1 benefactor and opened this state of the art facility about 8 or 9 years ago, and then the out of state transfers and rise to national prominence kind of started. When I read this stuff about IMG it just sounds very similar to me, obviously I don't have first hand experience with either, outside of playing the private school in our state several times.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 12:49:01 GMT -6
As long as they aren't competing for state championships against public schools, I'm not going to get too upset, but IMG galls me. From what I understand, the academic side of things there is pretty much a joke. Where have you gotten that info? That, to me, is the biggest upside for the kids attending, AND in my opinion, IMG's best marketing opportunity. They can tell the parents/kids "Hey, we are looking to develop YOU. The WHOLE you. We aren't just here for football, even if YOU are because they aren't competing for those state titles and other things. Lets face it, they aren't really going to lose very much if at all. So without that pressure, they really (just my opinion) would be foolish to not concentrate on the overall development of the kids. Seems to me that one of the main reasons for the school is to establish life long relationships with potential future stars that they will then represent. That is the goal of the school, but what I've heard--and this is just grumblings from people here and there, as well as the impression I get from their own marketing and interviews--is that the kids are basically just herded through enough classes to maintain their eligibility while being told to concentrate on sports. The kids aren't pushed to cultivate other interests, develop their critical thinking skills, etc. It's just a farm system for that agency. If a kid graduates from there and his or her athletic career doesn't pan out, then the education itself wasn't worth much. Besides, think about this as a teacher. If you have a kid there whose parents are paying $72k a year to attend or who is there on financial aid because the agency thinks they'll make millions off him down the road... do you really think you'd be allowed to fail that kid, risking his eligibility and relationship to the bottom line? There's no possible way that I could see a teacher uphold academic standards in an environment like that. As for teams not playing them... they have a hard time finding a schedule, but with the money behind that program, they can always buy games if they have to. If I'm a struggling public high school coach with a program in the red, and you come to me and offer $30k or so to schedule a non-conference game that won't impact my playoff standing, but might even get us on ESPN and get us some attention we wouldn't normally get... I would at least listen to your offer, similar to all the FCS schools who play SEC and Big 12 programs every year. We're not at their level. They're not going to take OUR kids, so we might take an @$$whipping for the payday if we're that bad off. Now, you could argue that a lot of struggling schools don't really develop the whole person, either, but they at least try. Rather than pumping a kid up with how great he is and how he's going to be a millionaire in a few years via athletics, they will at least put a kid in shop class or encourage them to think of other possibilities in life outside of sports. Personally, I look for the NCAA to get involved at some point in the next few years as schools similar to this proliferate. IMG Academy isn't the only "athletic program with a school" out there, but they are certainly the biggest and most high profile. A while back, the NCAA came down hard on "diploma mills" and I'd be willing to bet money that IMG and their ilk aren't much better.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2016 13:02:30 GMT -6
Where have you gotten that info? That, to me, is the biggest upside for the kids attending, AND in my opinion, IMG's best marketing opportunity. They can tell the parents/kids "Hey, we are looking to develop YOU. The WHOLE you. We aren't just here for football, even if YOU are because they aren't competing for those state titles and other things. Lets face it, they aren't really going to lose very much if at all. So without that pressure, they really (just my opinion) would be foolish to not concentrate on the overall development of the kids. Seems to me that one of the main reasons for the school is to establish life long relationships with potential future stars that they will then represent. That is the goal of the school, but what I've heard--and this is just grumblings from people here and there, as well as the impression I get from their own marketing and interviews--is that the kids are basically just herded through enough classes to maintain their eligibility while being told to concentrate on sports. The kids aren't pushed to cultivate other interests, develop their critical thinking skills, etc. It's just a farm system for that agency. If a kid graduates from there and his or her athletic career doesn't pan out, then the education itself wasn't worth much. Besides, think about this as a teacher. If you have a kid there whose parents are paying $72k a year to attend or who is there on financial aid because the agency thinks they'll make millions off him down the road... do you really think you'd be allowed to fail that kid, risking his eligibility and relationship to the bottom line? There's no possible way that I could see a teacher uphold academic standards in an environment like that. Now, you could argue that a lot of struggling schools don't really develop the whole person, either, but they at least try. Rather than pumping a kid up with how great he is and how he's going to be a millionaire in a few years via athletics, they will at least put a kid in shop class or encourage them to think of other possibilities in life outside of sports. As for teams not playing them... they have a hard time finding a schedule, but with the money behind that program, they can always buy games if they have to. Personally, I look for the NCAA to get involved at some point in the next few years as schools similar to this proliferate. IMG Academy isn't the only "athletic program with a school" out there, but they are certainly the biggest and most high profile. A while back, the NCAA came down hard on "diploma mills" and I'd be willing to bet money that IMG and their ilk aren't much better. Again, I say this with zero first hand knowldege. I just don't see people putting the 2.4 BILLION (with a B) dollar merger between WME and IMG trying to become a short term dimploma mill. When you talk of "failing" students, I do not see this school as a traditional school, and as such, I would find it pretty difficult to "fail" anyone. A quick google search put up the average class size as 10-12 students. Maybe I am looking through rose colored glasses, but I just don't see anyone not getting kids under 18 years old (school seems to start at 12) and in a boarding school setting to perform at least passing work. The kids that one would assume would be "passed" just to play ball, probably aren't engaged and probably perform much worse in a traditional public school environment. I actually think that being in this type of setting would help those who are only into sports, because quite frankly they aren't all that special in this environment.
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Post by 33coach on Feb 14, 2016 14:00:13 GMT -6
That is the goal of the school, but what I've heard--and this is just grumblings from people here and there, as well as the impression I get from their own marketing and interviews--is that the kids are basically just herded through enough classes to maintain their eligibility while being told to concentrate on sports. The kids aren't pushed to cultivate other interests, develop their critical thinking skills, etc. It's just a farm system for that agency. If a kid graduates from there and his or her athletic career doesn't pan out, then the education itself wasn't worth much. Besides, think about this as a teacher. If you have a kid there whose parents are paying $72k a year to attend or who is there on financial aid because the agency thinks they'll make millions off him down the road... do you really think you'd be allowed to fail that kid, risking his eligibility and relationship to the bottom line? There's no possible way that I could see a teacher uphold academic standards in an environment like that. Now, you could argue that a lot of struggling schools don't really develop the whole person, either, but they at least try. Rather than pumping a kid up with how great he is and how he's going to be a millionaire in a few years via athletics, they will at least put a kid in shop class or encourage them to think of other possibilities in life outside of sports. As for teams not playing them... they have a hard time finding a schedule, but with the money behind that program, they can always buy games if they have to. Personally, I look for the NCAA to get involved at some point in the next few years as schools similar to this proliferate. IMG Academy isn't the only "athletic program with a school" out there, but they are certainly the biggest and most high profile. A while back, the NCAA came down hard on "diploma mills" and I'd be willing to bet money that IMG and their ilk aren't much better. Again, I say this with zero first hand knowldege. I just don't see people putting the 2.4 BILLION (with a B) dollar merger between WME and IMG trying to become a short term dimploma mill. When you talk of "failing" students, I do not see this school as a traditional school, and as such, I would find it pretty difficult to "fail" anyone. A quick google search put up the average class size as 10-12 students. Maybe I am looking through rose colored glasses, but I just don't see anyone not getting kids under 18 years old (school seems to start at 12) and in a boarding school setting to perform at least passing work. The kids that one would assume would be "passed" just to play ball, probably aren't engaged and probably perform much worse in a traditional public school environment. I actually think that being in this type of setting would help those who are only into sports, because quite frankly they aren't all that special in this environment. thats an interesting argument. and not one ive heard before. i have a buddy who is a "Leadership Coach" and IMG (just got the job). maybe ill hit him up to see just what goes on over there LOL
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2016 14:12:37 GMT -6
Personally, I look for the NCAA to get involved at some point in the next few years as schools similar to this proliferate. IMG Academy isn't the only "athletic program with a school" out there, but they are certainly the biggest and most high profile. A while back, the NCAA came down hard on "diploma mills" and I'd be willing to bet money that IMG and their ilk aren't much better. Here is the difference...IMG academy has been around for quite a while. The "new" thing is having a football team, and opening its doors to football athletes. I would argue that the other "athletic programs with a school" again different. I would say that IMG is probably much more closely aligned in mission to a school like NOCCA (New Orleans Center for Creative Arts) or the Fiorello H. Laguardia High School (School that the movie and tv show "Fame" was based off of) than it would be a power house private school that wins a lot of athletic championships. It just seems that IMG is about the individual development, as opposed to simply winning games and getting kids athletic scholarships.
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Post by raymul313 on Feb 14, 2016 14:16:03 GMT -6
Where have you gotten that info? That, to me, is the biggest upside for the kids attending, AND in my opinion, IMG's best marketing opportunity. They can tell the parents/kids "Hey, we are looking to develop YOU. The WHOLE you. We aren't just here for football, even if YOU are because they aren't competing for those state titles and other things. Lets face it, they aren't really going to lose very much if at all. So without that pressure, they really (just my opinion) would be foolish to not concentrate on the overall development of the kids. Seems to me that one of the main reasons for the school is to establish life long relationships with potential future stars that they will then represent. id love to see their academic approach. i mean lets face it, these kids are trying to go Alabama, and Ohio, not MIT - and going for communications degrees.....(no offense to my SoLA - Comms majors out there). so i get they dont have to strive for 4+ GPAs... but it would be interesting to see what "passing" is there. Communications degree holder here: No offense taken lol
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Post by 60zgo on Feb 14, 2016 15:07:27 GMT -6
Well based on that article they seem to have a high number of kids going so they can graduate early. That could be a key push/pull factor for some high profile kids.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2016 15:11:24 GMT -6
Well based on that article they seem to have a high number of kids going so they can graduate early. That could be a key push/pull factor for some high profile kids. I think many "regular" HS kids can probably set it up to leave mid year if the system allows it.
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Post by coachbdud on Feb 14, 2016 15:29:11 GMT -6
i get the luxury of speaking with a TON of top NCAA coaches
from talking to them about IMG they think it is stupid don't get me wrong, they are gonna recruit them like crazy because they have so many D1 kids there its ridiculous
but they all have said theyd never let one of their own sons go there
1. too many talented kids... there's always D1 kids sitting on the bench... and they want to get everyone out so they rotate often, but no matter what guys who would be the best player on their local team, are sitting on the sideline for stretches at a time 2. not a real HS environment... the stadium is empty on game days... like less than 100 people on average 3. the kids who go there would have all of the offers/attention whether they played there or stayed at their local school
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Post by 33coach on Feb 14, 2016 15:35:32 GMT -6
i get the luxury of speaking with a TON of top NCAA coaches from talking to them about IMG they think it is stupid don't get me wrong, they are gonna recruit them like crazy because they have so many D1 kids there its ridiculous but they all have said theyd never let one of their own sons go there 1. too many talented kids... there's always D1 kids sitting on the bench... and they want to get everyone out so they rotate often, but no matter what guys who would be the best player on their local team, are sitting on the sideline for stretches at a time 2. not a real HS environment... the stadium is empty on game days... like less than 100 people on average 3. the kids who go there would have all of the offers/attention whether they played there or stayed at their local school i never thought about #2 but it makes total sense. when your team is imported from everywhere. who would go to a game?
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2016 15:49:57 GMT -6
i get the luxury of speaking with a TON of top NCAA coaches from talking to them about IMG they think it is stupid don't get me wrong, they are gonna recruit them like crazy because they have so many D1 kids there its ridiculous but they all have said theyd never let one of their own sons go there 1. too many talented kids... there's always D1 kids sitting on the bench... and they want to get everyone out so they rotate often, but no matter what guys who would be the best player on their local team, are sitting on the sideline for stretches at a time 2. not a real HS environment... the stadium is empty on game days... like less than 100 people on average 3. the kids who go there would have all of the offers/attention whether they played there or stayed at their local school As I mentioned, I think the IMG model is one of individual player development. That is what it has been for years ( originally founded for tennis players before purchased by IMG). It isn't about getting schollies or winning championships. I also think that college coaches don't like the idea of the unknown, and this is definitely an unknown regarding football. I could easily see D1 coaches being a bit unnerved by the fact that the kids that are attending IMG academy have people access to counselors with titles such as "Director of College Planning and Placement" and are basically working with D1 prospects (and better, in the case of sports such as tennis/golf etc) Essentially, I don't think Saban, Miles, Meyer, Strong etc are extremely comfortable walking into an environment where they aren necessarily the biggest deal. On their website, they proclaim Obviously that doesn't only include the boarding school "high school" kid's successes, but also any who train at the academy. I think that is what they are banking on.
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 14, 2016 16:02:52 GMT -6
I talked with a couple coaches the last few days at a clinic and apparently this sports school is recruiting kids in Minnesota where I live. I guess to these kids(and parents) remembering where you come from isn't that important. I think IMG is {censored}.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 14, 2016 16:12:52 GMT -6
My question is, why would anyone want to schedule a game against IMG? Do they pay schools to play against them? How much do they offer if they are paying for games?
Is there any movement from the state athletic association to bar member schools from playing IMG?
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jmg999
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Post by jmg999 on Feb 14, 2016 16:26:37 GMT -6
A while back, I read a handful of articles online about both IMG Academy and Prime Academy. A couple of the articles were written by former employees of IMG, while one was written by a parent of a former student at IMG. One article compared the models at both academies. None of what was stated was flattering, by any stretch. Basically, they both came across as minor league systems for performance athletes. In the case of the parent who wrote the article, they stated that their child was essentially dismissed from IMG for not living up to expectations on the soccer field. I also read on another site that allows (former) employees to post comments related to their experience, and none of what they had to say was good. They come across as nothing more than sports factories, and all they have to ensure is that students are qualifiers. It's not that difficult to do, especially in a 24/7 environment.
In regard to their scheduling, I saw something at the beginning of this past season saying that IMG, much like Prime, has no league affiliation. In IMG's case, they also played one or two "pre-season" games, one of which they lost, but for whatever reason, it wasn't counted in their final record.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 14, 2016 16:45:12 GMT -6
A while back, I read a handful of articles online about both IMG Academy and Prime Academy. A couple of the articles were written by former employees of IMG, while one was written by a parent of a former student at IMG. One article compared the models at both academies. None of what was stated was flattering, by any stretch. Basically, they both came across as minor league systems for performance athletes. In the case of the parent who wrote the article, they stated that their child was essentially dismissed from IMG for not living up to expectations on the soccer field. I also read on another site that allows (former) employees to post comments related to their experience, and none of what they had to say was good. They come across as nothing more than sports factories, and all they have to ensure is that students are qualifiers. It's not that difficult to do, especially in a 24/7 environment. In regard to their scheduling, I saw something at the beginning of this past season saying that IMG, much like Prime, has no league affiliation. In IMG's case, they also played one or two "pre-season" games, one of which they lost, but for whatever reason, it wasn't counted in their final record. Having read some of the reviews now as well, it seems I may well indeed be looking at it through rose colored glasses and a great naivety. Shame too, as it seems the model might really be fruitful if implemented correctly.
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