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Post by jackedup on Nov 18, 2016 22:05:36 GMT -6
So, I'm potentially going to take over a program that hasn't won in 2 years. Have any of you been in a similar situation? And if so, what were your experiences? What was the first thing you did?
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Post by 19delta on Nov 18, 2016 22:23:36 GMT -6
So, I'm potentially going to take over a program that hasn't won in 2 years. Have any of you been in a similar situation? And if so, what were your experiences? What was the first thing you did? Quoting Hugh Wyattt here..."Stop sucking!" Or, if you are a Cubs fan, The 2016 version, courtesy of Joe Maddon..."Try Not to Suck". |
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 19, 2016 6:34:49 GMT -6
The first thing you do is scream at them to get good.
I am looking at HC jobs as well. First thing for me will be to meet the guys. Go over offseason expectations and get them lifting. If they are losers I am assuming that the weight room wasn't a huge component of the previous program. Make it an exciting place to be. I also want measurables. I have experience with air raid, flexbone, pro style, spread (IZ and OZ). I want to know what I have so I can decide on which system to run.
After that I need to get my staff together. I want to find out if there are guys in the schools I can get on board and how many of my guys I need to bring in. My guys are important but if the school doesn't have jobs for them I'd rather go with former coaches already there and coach them up. Once the staff is hired we will do a retreat/staff clinic to bond and get us on the same page.
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Post by utchuckd on Nov 19, 2016 7:52:42 GMT -6
The first thing you do is scream at them to get good. I am looking at HC jobs as well. First thing for me will be to meet the guys. Go over offseason expectations and get them lifting. If they are losers I am assuming that the weight room wasn't a huge component of the previous program. Make it an exciting place to be. I also want measurables. I have experience with air raid, flexbone, pro style, spread (IZ and OZ). I want to know what I have so I can decide on which system to run. After that I need to get my staff together. I want to find out if there are guys in the schools I can get on board and how many of my guys I need to bring in. My guys are important but if the school doesn't have jobs for them I'd rather go with former coaches already there and coach them up. Once the staff is hired we will do a retreat/staff clinic to bond and get us on the same page. I thought you were getting out of coaching for the real world? |
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 19, 2016 7:53:37 GMT -6
The first thing you do is scream at them to get good. I am looking at HC jobs as well. First thing for me will be to meet the guys. Go over offseason expectations and get them lifting. If they are losers I am assuming that the weight room wasn't a huge component of the previous program. Make it an exciting place to be. I also want measurables. I have experience with air raid, flexbone, pro style, spread (IZ and OZ). I want to know what I have so I can decide on which system to run. After that I need to get my staff together. I want to find out if there are guys in the schools I can get on board and how many of my guys I need to bring in. My guys are important but if the school doesn't have jobs for them I'd rather go with former coaches already there and coach them up. Once the staff is hired we will do a retreat/staff clinic to bond and get us on the same page. I thought you were getting out of coaching for the real world? I was looking at it. The job I was looking at didn't pan out for a few reasons, and that's ok. Just wanted to cover my bases if it did happen. I wasn't actively looking but the opportunity came up through a friend. The money was good and it was a job I could be satisfied doing so I had to do my diligence and explore it. Didn't work out, time to get back to the grind. |
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Post by olcoach53 on Nov 19, 2016 9:05:41 GMT -6
I think as coaches we all realize that very rarely will we take over a "winning program" unless we are already on staff. You have to come in and get them to buy into what you are telling them on AND off the field. If they buy in and start to do things right then the wins will eventually come. Might not be year one or two or even three but the success will start to happen.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 19, 2016 9:09:23 GMT -6
So, I'm potentially going to take over a program that hasn't won in 2 years. Have any of you been in a similar situation? And if so, what were your experiences? What was the first thing you did? I would think the VERY first thing you need to do is really dig deep and see if you can find out why the team hasn't won in 2 years. If that is not something you can control, don't take the job. Unfortunately, many times you can't discover the reason until after you are waist deep in it. |
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Post by blb on Nov 19, 2016 9:28:06 GMT -6
First meet with players for about 15 minutes.
Have AD introduce you and highlight things in your background-experience that make you the right man for the job.
Be positive and enthusiastic but demanding to set the tone from the start. Demonstrate confidence that you have the vision and plan to win there IF they put in the time-effort. Tell them a FEW of your goals for the program.
Talk BRIEFLY about what they need to do between now and Summer - do NOT try to lay out your whole philosophy or program. Encourage them to play Winter or Spring sports, and let them know if they're not they will be expected to be in the weight room - "Thou Shalt Not Vegetate."
At one job I began meeting by asking "How many of you are good football players?" Maybe a dozen stood up.
I said, "Oh, c'mon. I've talked to opposing coaches. I've seen the films. I know better and I didn't take this job to lose. Now - How many of you are good football players?"
This time about half of them stood up. So at least I had identified the problem (confidence).
Alternative is after you've laid out your goals and expectations, at end of meeting ask them: "Now - how many of you are willing to do WHATEVER IT TAKES to accomplish those things - Stand up!"
Close meeting by asking if there are questions. Be prepared to talk briefly about offense without boxing yourself in unless you are going to run something regardless of personnel.
End meeting on a positive "high" note with a "breakdown" or "Go Tigers!" or some such.
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Post by blb on Nov 19, 2016 9:29:09 GMT -6
So, I'm potentially going to take over a program that hasn't won in 2 years. Have any of you been in a similar situation? And if so, what were your experiences? What was the first thing you did? I would think the VERY first thing you need to do is really dig deep and see if you can find out why the team hasn't won in 2 years. If that is not something you can control, don't take the job. Unfortunately, many times you can't discover the reason until after you are waist deep in it.
The title of my book is going to be The Things They Tell You AFTER You've Taken the Job.
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Post by rsmith627 on Nov 19, 2016 9:35:06 GMT -6
I would think the VERY first thing you need to do is really dig deep and see if you can find out why the team hasn't won in 2 years. If that is not something you can control, don't take the job. Unfortunately, many times you can't discover the reason until after you are waist deep in it.
The title of my book is going to be The Things They Tell You AFTER You've Taken the Job.
I'd buy it. Knowing a bit about you I'm sure you could fill that thing up. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 10:15:00 GMT -6
Make sure you investigate that EXTREMELY thorough before you even put in an ap.
Remember turnarounds are a rare occurance, we all want to be the guy who does, but it doesnt happen as often as you think
Find out whats going on beneath the surface 1st
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Post by nstanley on Nov 19, 2016 11:12:27 GMT -6
I agree that doing a lot of research into the struggles and successes of the program is vital to getting started and not wasting time on getting things turned around. Since there are a lot of different reasons for a losing program from demographics to coaching to administrative support, etc., I'll focus more on general things you could/should do. In no particular order: Develop core values for your program. We follow Brian Cain's MVP process in our program and I believe that it has led to a lot of growth in our coaches and players. Deciding what your mission, vision and principles are is the foundation of your program. I wrote a quick blog post about how we implemented core values into our program that might be worth reading. Remember once you have core values, you have to sell and reinforcement at every opportunity. Change the way they operate. When I took over the program where I'm currently the head coach, I tried to change everything about the program that I could to give kids the message that this was a new program and it wouldn't be business as usual. We changed the helmets, purchased "homecoming jerseys" with player names on them, played music at practice, split the staff to O/D only, started new traditions, etc. There are going to be some things you change that are really important to you but, I would look for arbitrary things to change that are mainly superficial that you can use to signal a shift in the program. Coaches. You have to start with a core group of coaches who are loyal to you and the program. This is increasingly difficult for coaches who are coming into a new job from the outside. Bringing coaches with you is ideal but in lieu of this, you really have to be careful about who you hire. Build relationships. My friend Randy Jackson says, "Your kids have to want to lay down in traffic for you." You and your assistants have to be intentional about building relationships with each and every one of your kids. This has to be something you sit down and outline. You can't have rules before relationships. Rebuilding a program is a pretty big job so finding a model/template for organizing your thoughts is valuable in my opinion. I would suggest using the Nine Characteristics of a High Performing School as a Model for you to outline your program. Another model that I was taught by a mentor of mine what what he called the "four fundamentals" of a good program: - Fundamentals of Motivation (Kids; Parents; Student Body)
- Fundamentals of Planning (Schedule, Weight Program, Fundraising, Equipment)
- Fundamentals of a Progression of Teaching (Offensive/Defensive System; Practice Planning)
- Fundamentals of Coaching your Coaches
Either of those work to serve as a good place to start sketching out what you want to do with your program.
Hope this helps.
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Post by wingtol on Nov 19, 2016 11:32:55 GMT -6
If you do take the job here make sure you don't talk about winning right away "We're gonna turn this around and win right away!" "Gonna shock the world!" It has to be from day one about getting better, improving every day not talking about winning all the time. Also your coaches need to be no the same page and in it together, players can't see you argue or challenge each other on the field etc has to be a unified staff.
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Post by 19delta on Nov 19, 2016 11:48:30 GMT -6
So, I'm potentially going to take over a program that hasn't won in 2 years. Have any of you been in a similar situation? And if so, what were your experiences? What was the first thing you did? Quoting Hugh Wyattt here..."Stop sucking!" Or, if you are a Cubs fan, The 2016 version, courtesy of Joe Maddon..."Try Not to Suck". To clarify, what Coach Wyatt meant by "stop sucking": identify the factors that greatly compound losing and eliminate them. For example, I took over a program back in 2009 that had won one game in the previous 3 years. One of the reasons that they were so woeful was that they ran the spread and were just awful at it. Lots of INTs and an abysmal completion rate. So, the offensive scheme they were running was making a bad team even worse because they kept giving the opposition extra possessions and every time they threw an incomplete pass, the clock stopped and left time for more scoring. So we went to the double wing. We ran the ball. Not always really well, but we dramatically reduced turnovers and succeeded in speeding up the game. Just by running the ball and not throwing INTs, we reduced the number of opponent possessions and kept scores more respectable. We weren't great that year. Ended up 3-6. But in 3 of the 6 games we lost, we were actually pretty competitive and it was a huge improvement over the previous 3 seasons. So I think that is where you should start. Why did they go winless for 2 years? What was going on? Were the ever good? Was it a 2-year hiccup or is there a long tradition of losing at the school? |
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Post by aceback76 on Nov 19, 2016 12:13:01 GMT -6
So, I'm potentially going to take over a program that hasn't won in 2 years. Have any of you been in a similar situation? And if so, what were your experiences? What was the first thing you did? MOTIVATE, MOTIVATE, MOTIVATE!!!! The mental is to the physical as 4 is to 1! A T T I T U D E “The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company . . . a church . . . a home. The remarkable thing is we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past . . . we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude . . . I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it. And so it is with you . . . we are in charge of our attitudes.” |
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Post by jg78 on Nov 19, 2016 12:23:47 GMT -6
So, I'm potentially going to take over a program that hasn't won in 2 years. Have any of you been in a similar situation? And if so, what were your experiences? What was the first thing you did? I would think the VERY first thing you need to do is really dig deep and see if you can find out why the team hasn't won in 2 years. If that is not something you can control, don't take the job. Unfortunately, many times you can't discover the reason until after you are waist deep in it. Agree 100%. And one rule I have is to never take a job w/o discussing it with the outgoing coach. Find out what he thinks. He knows better than anyone what you are getting into. If he was fired he may be bitter and paint a dark picture, but then again the people still with the school may paint a picture that is prettier than reality. As usual, the truth probably will be somewhere in the middle. |
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Post by blb on Nov 19, 2016 12:24:08 GMT -6
So, I'm potentially going to take over a program that hasn't won in 2 years. Have any of you been in a similar situation? And if so, what were your experiences? What was the first thing you did? MOTIVATE, MOTIVATE, MOTIVATE!!!! The mental is to the physical as 4 is to 1! A T T I T U D E
Great advice.
Any practical suggestions on HOW to do that for a coach taking over a losing program?
Also - how did you define "ATTITUDE"?
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Post by bigmoot on Nov 19, 2016 12:37:27 GMT -6
I've learned....set the standard and hold the players to it. Cost me wins this year. 3 seniors (qb and 2 rbs) would not buy in, played 2 freshmen and a soph in their place alot.
As a previous poster says...Preached attitude and effort. The 2 things a person can control.
Find and emphasize small victories.
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Post by aceback76 on Nov 19, 2016 13:18:51 GMT -6
MOTIVATE, MOTIVATE, MOTIVATE!!!! The mental is to the physical as 4 is to 1! A T T I T U D E
Great advice.
Any practical suggestions on HOW to do that for a coach taking over a losing program?
Also - how did you define "ATTITUDE"?
My BEST definition of ATTITUDE would be "CONFIDENCE"! I will ALWAYS believe that comes before talent (next of importance), fundamentals, & X/O's. Having taken over SIX LOSING HS PROGRAMS in Va., I have "been there & done that"! Any practical suggestions on HOW to do that for a coach taking over a losing program?: 1. Providing MEASURABLE results in your out-of-season (where they can SEE their improvement). 2. Mat Drill COMBATIVES where they learn how to FIGHT (“Football in its purest form remains a physical fight. As in any fight, if you don’t want to fight, it’s impossible to win.”). Only rules = no kicking, no punching, no biting. 2. On non-lifting days = have motivational SPEAKERS address your players (we had Lou Holtz do this - among others). Have motivational videos, ETC. All of this is too deep to DETAIL typing. It is a FULL PROGRAM that is 11 months long for us. Be happy to talk with anyone interested! |
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Post by blb on Nov 19, 2016 13:44:55 GMT -6
Great advice.
Any practical suggestions on HOW to do that for a coach taking over a losing program?
Also - how did you define "ATTITUDE"?
My BEST definition of ATTITUDE would be "CONFIDENCE"! I will ALWAYS believe that comes before talent (next of importance), fundamentals, & X/O's. Having taken over SIX LOSING HS PROGRAMS in Va., I have "been there & done that"! Any practical suggestions on HOW to do that for a coach taking over a losing program?: 1. Providing MEASURABLE results in your out-of-season (where they can SEE their improvement). 2. Mat Drill COMBATIVES where they learn how to FIGHT (“Football in its purest form remains a physical fight. As in any fight, if you don’t want to fight, it’s impossible to win.”). Only rules = no kicking, no punching, no biting. 2. On non-lifting days = have motivational SPEAKERS address your players (we had Lou Holtz do this - among others). Have motivational videos, ETC. All of this is too deep to DETAIL typing. It is a FULL PROGRAM that is 11 months long for us. Be happy to talk with anyone interested!
Interesting. Thanks for response, Coach.
I have never been at a school - and perhaps OP will not be going to one - where we could do "Mat Drills" or bring in a Lou Holtz or his like to give motivational speeches.
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Post by blb on Nov 19, 2016 14:00:12 GMT -6
Make sure you investigate that EXTREMELY thorough before you even put in an ap. Remember turnarounds are a rare occurance, we all want to be the guy who does, but it doesnt happen as often as you think Find out whats going on beneath the surface 1st
Coach Kelly is very right.
There are schools and-or communities where the conditions, environment, attitudes just do not exist for even an outstanding head coach to develop a competitive much less winning Football program.
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Post by blb on Nov 19, 2016 14:15:51 GMT -6
On non-lifting days = have motivational SPEAKERS address your players (we had Lou Holtz do this - among others). Have motivational videos, ETC. How would you suggest those of us who don't have our players "11 months" of the year motivate them?
i.e. they're playing basketball, baseball, wrestling, running Track?
Don't have time to show them motivational videos because they are doing those other things (as well as school, work, family)?
What is the "ETC."?
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Post by aceback76 on Nov 19, 2016 14:38:46 GMT -6
On non-lifting days = have motivational SPEAKERS address your players (we had Lou Holtz do this - among others). Have motivational videos, ETC. How would you suggest those of us who don't have our players "11 months" of the year motivate them?
i.e. they're playing basketball, baseball, wrestling, running Track?
Don't have time to show them motivational videos because they are doing those other things (as well as school, work, family)?
What is the "ETC."?
Obviously I don't know your "schedule" (amount of TIME you have), and I could not "tailor" my program for others, but all I can say is do as much as you CAN! If you are a HIGH SCHOOL Coach - I believe what Bob Ladecour says is IMPORTANT: "If your players are in baseball (sitting on the bench spitting sunflower seeds) and NOT working out - they will be 3 1/2 months behind when you get them back (& NEVER recover)". We have them come in before school at 7 PM 3 days a week to lift. In lower than HS level - you may not NEED to do this - YOUR CALL! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 14:44:17 GMT -6
aceback77 is dead on, you have to come in till the old ground, and instill a brand new attitude, and trust me the kids wont always like it .
You have to do whatever you can to enrich a bad program, because often there isn't $hit in terms of pride, work ethic, expectations there to begin with .
Often you can find people to come in and speak to your kids, set it up when (if) any big name coaches come in to recruit.
Email your local Pro sports team, or College , and ask if they could have a player or coach come out and speak to your kids .
Doesn't always have to be a football player either, I want my kids to understand that the route to success is no different in any realm, they just have to understand how to apply it .
A good friend of mine said his son not only picked his game up on the football field but also began to bust his tail, and excelled his last 2 years in basketball after he spoke with a NBA all star .
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Post by **** on Nov 19, 2016 15:03:29 GMT -6
So, I'm potentially going to take over a program that hasn't won in 2 years. Have any of you been in a similar situation? And if so, what were your experiences? What was the first thing you did? I would think the VERY first thing you need to do is really dig deep and see if you can find out why the team hasn't won in 2 years. If that is not something you can control, don't take the job. Unfortunately, many times you can't discover the reason until after you are waist deep in it. Spot on |
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Post by 19delta on Nov 19, 2016 15:09:57 GMT -6
And has already been said but can't be emphasized enough...get the weight room going!
Maximize the opportunities for kids to be able to lift. Maybe you can even do an evening session so any kids who are doing winter and spring sports can lift after practice?
With football, everything starts in the weight room. Just getting those kids stronger will result in better performance on the field.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 19, 2016 16:17:23 GMT -6
If you are a HIGH SCHOOL Coach - I believe what Bob Ladecour says is IMPORTANT: "If your players are in baseball (sitting on the bench spitting sunflower seeds) and NOT working out - they will be 3 1/2 months behind when you get them back (& NEVER recover)". We have them come in before school at 7 PM 3 days a week to lift. In lower than HS level - you may not NEED to do this - YOUR CALL! And if a HS baseball coach believes "If 'my' players are in football, accumulating sub-concussive blows, rattling his brain around and NOT taking cuts in the cage--they will be 3 1/2 months behind when I get them back (& NEVER recover). I will have them come in before school at 7AM (assuming a typo there) 3 days a week to hit BP. And if a HS Basketball Coach says "If 'MY' players are in football, rolling around in the dirt and resting in a huddle for 30 seconds after each 5 second play--they will be 3 1/2 months behind when I get them back (& Never recover). I will have them come in before school at 7A 3 days a week to shoot. Not saying one should not lift. I am saying that viewing lifting as a "football thing" is often a symptom of one of the schools that will be harder to turn around. A school that promotes ALL athletes being involved in Strength development stands a much better chance of being successful. |
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Post by spos21ram on Nov 19, 2016 16:30:44 GMT -6
How would you suggest those of us who don't have our players "11 months" of the year motivate them?
i.e. they're playing basketball, baseball, wrestling, running Track?
Don't have time to show them motivational videos because they are doing those other things (as well as school, work, family)?
What is the "ETC."?
Obviously I don't know your "schedule" (amount of TIME you have), and I could not "tailor" my program for others, but all I can say is do as much as you CAN! If you are a HIGH SCHOOL Coach - I believe what Bob Ladecour says is IMPORTANT: "If your players are in baseball (sitting on the bench spitting sunflower seeds) and NOT working out - they will be 3 1/2 months behind when you get them back (& NEVER recover)". We have them come in before school at 7 PM 3 days a week to lift. In lower than HS level - you may not NEED to do this - YOUR CALL! Being both a football assistant and a baseball HC, I would tell my baseball guys in baseball season they don't have to go to football lifting even if it's before school. They can go if they want, but our head FB coach can take it up with me if he has a problem with that. My baseball team lifts in season so they are doing something. I don't force my baseball players that play other sports to do baseball things out of season. Many do on their own, but I would never make them. |
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Post by aceback76 on Nov 19, 2016 16:31:25 GMT -6
If you are a HIGH SCHOOL Coach - I believe what Bob Ladecour says is IMPORTANT: "If your players are in baseball (sitting on the bench spitting sunflower seeds) and NOT working out - they will be 3 1/2 months behind when you get them back (& NEVER recover)". We have them come in before school at 7 PM 3 days a week to lift. In lower than HS level - you may not NEED to do this - YOUR CALL! And if a HS baseball coach believes "If 'my' players are in football, accumulating sub-concussive blows, rattling his brain around and NOT taking cuts in the cage--they will be 3 1/2 months behind when I get them back (& NEVER recover). I will have them come in before school at 7AM (assuming a typo there) 3 days a week to hit BP. And if a HS Basketball Coach says "If 'MY' players are in football, rolling around in the dirt and resting in a huddle for 30 seconds after each 5 second play--they will be 3 1/2 months behind when I get them back (& Never recover). I will have them come in before school at 7A 3 days a week to shoot. I get these things STRAIGHT before I accept a position. We have Weight Training in ELECTIVE CLASSES Regardless of what OTHER sport they play = all our athletes are in CLASSES (for Carnegie Credit) either first OR second period. We get our Weight Training THAT way (if they play basketball baseball, or track = they don't have to lift on GAME DAY)! These are called "ADVANCED PE" (or "ATHLETIC PERIODS"). The coaches of all these sports are AWARE of the value of a good weight program. For those who say it "CAN'T" be done = our MOTTO is to "delete from our dictionary the words CAN'T, SOFT, EASY, QUIT", etc. This is just OUR way of doing things (other may not do it this way, & that's THEIR prerogative). Do your own thing & best wishes! ************************************************************************** FROM THE WALL OF OUR WEIGHT ROOM: It Couldn’t Be Done: Somebody said that it couldn’t be done But he with a chuckle replied That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried. So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin On his face. If he worried he hid it. He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it! Somebody scoffed: “Oh, you’ll never do that; At least no one ever has done it;” But he took off his coat and he took off his hat And the first thing we knew he’d begun it. With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin, Without any doubting or quiddit, He started to sing as he tackled the thing That couldn’t be done, and he did it. There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done, There are thousands to prophesy failure, There are thousands to point out to you one by one, The dangers that wait to assail you. But just buckle in with a bit of a grin, Just take off your coat and go to it; Just start in to sing as you tackle the thing That “cannot be done,” and you’ll do it. |
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Post by freezeoption on Nov 19, 2016 16:53:25 GMT -6
Number 1, better find out why this school is losing, if you cant do that then better be very careful, because it sucks moving all your crap, moving family, changing everything and then gone in a year or two. Next, better get with all the sports hc and see if they have a overall weight program and what can be done, You got to work with everyone or you may have no one on your team. I will assume you already talked to the previous hc, after talking with the other hcs then you will need to get with the assts, there is a lot to cover there, then get with the kids, you want to have your ducks in a row before you start putting demands on people
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