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Post by rsmith627 on Feb 12, 2017 12:15:02 GMT -6
Anybody get away from team/group meetings completely? I did last year in favor of walkthrough. We had a crazy group of kids who couldn't sit still and listen for long periods. To adapt we didn't do chalk time. It was straight out to the field for meetings and we would walk through it on the field, showing kids their job, different scenarios we might see, etc.
Worked out really well for us. Wondering if anybody else has gone away from traditional meetings, and if so what were your motivations for doing it? Do you feel like you are losing out on anything by not having them?
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 12, 2017 12:39:28 GMT -6
My meetings I consider important but we keep them pretty upbeat. It turns out I was using DI, flipped classroom, and think-talk-share all by accident. Full offense meetings really need to be short and cover only the broad overview.
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Post by mariner42 on Feb 12, 2017 17:26:26 GMT -6
Anybody get away from team/group meetings completely? I did last year in favor of walkthrough. We had a crazy group of kids who couldn't sit still and listen for long periods. To adapt we didn't do chalk time. It was straight out to the field for meetings and we would walk through it on the field, showing kids their job, different scenarios we might see, etc. Worked out really well for us. Wondering if anybody else has gone away from traditional meetings, and if so what were your motivations for doing it? Do you feel like you are losing out on anything by not having them? We haven't for about 8 years now. Just about everything gets installed and taught on the field.
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Post by 50slantstrong on Feb 12, 2017 17:50:47 GMT -6
I think that's the best way to go. The longer I work in education the more I believe kids learn by physically doing, more so than listening or seeing.
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Post by Chris Clement on Feb 12, 2017 19:10:56 GMT -6
If I had the limitations of a high school I would probably abandon meetings.
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Post by bluboy on Feb 12, 2017 19:58:42 GMT -6
The only time we meet with the defensive guys is when we have an issue with something . We do a ton of walkthrough on the field. If we have a problem, we go to a classroom after practice a spend about 20 minutes going over things on the board. When we do this, we make the players tell us what they are doing and why.
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Post by agap on Feb 12, 2017 20:45:47 GMT -6
We have more meetings in the summer or early in the season. Once we get into games, we only meet two days a week and it's for about 15-20 minutes total. They quit paying attention after that.
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Post by lions23 on Feb 12, 2017 20:46:25 GMT -6
I hate team walk through. Too many kids not involved. 10 mi utes on the board or lately I write things up before and send kids the pictures. 20-30 mins of film. Less as week goes on.
My rule in the classroom is 10 minutes tops for lectures as well. However I'm realizing that our situation is more unique than I knew after talking with my college coach last weekend. He pointed out that I have more assistants than a college staff.
Our meetings are pretty successful probably bc we are split up in position groups and we have the numbers of players and coaches to do that. I think if it is working for you and you are executing at a high rate then do what you do but I hate the ideas of large group or team walk through for teaching. We do it by position group. We do team walk through for Thursday review.
For me all kids need to go through the VAKT learning process. So I want them to see it hear it jog it and run it over. And over.
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Post by rsmith627 on Feb 12, 2017 20:54:25 GMT -6
I hate team walk through. Too many kids not involved. 10 mi utes on the board or lately I write things up before and send kids the pictures. 20-30 mins of film. Less as week goes on. My rule in the classroom is 10 minutes tops for lectures as well. However I'm realizing that our situation is more unique than I knew after talking with my college coach last weekend. He pointed out that I have more assistants than a college staff. Our meetings are pretty successful probably bc we are split up in position groups and we have the numbers of players and coaches to do that. I think if it is working for you and you are executing at a high rate then do what you do but I hate the ideas of large group or team walk through for teaching. We do it by position group. We do team walk through for Thursday review. For me all kids need to go through the VAKT learning process. So I want them to see it hear it jog it and run it over. And over. Say you have 45 on your team (I usually have about 55 on my JV team). I can walk through with 2 offenses and 2 scout defenses at a time which leaves about 10 standing around. 44/55 involved and doing so,etching isn't perfect, but it isn't bad. If I go do chalk 0/55 are involved.
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Post by natenator on Feb 12, 2017 22:08:28 GMT -6
For my summer team that starts games the 3rd week in May I will do classroom install followed by gym walk-thru.
We only practice 2 (stretch is 3) times a week and the first month of our preseason (we start 8 weeks before our first game) we have to use indoor dome fields which cost $180/hr. Having kids starting around and doing install walk-thru is very expensive. I'd rather use a school classroom and gum time to install and walk-thru and save the field stuff for things that require an actual field.
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Post by somecoach on Feb 13, 2017 0:58:03 GMT -6
I prefer meetings.
When it comes to installs I want the kids to visual things in the "3rd person" on the chalk board
I feel on the field walkthroughs are too lengthy and result in too much standing around time.
Plus after standing around for 10-15 minutes by the time you get up to the 10th and 11th kids he is just going to yes you to death so he can go back to playing vs the 10 seconds it takes to draw up the kid's assignment on the board and if he tunes out the words you are saying atleast he can see his assignment visually.
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Post by tabs52 on Feb 13, 2017 4:44:38 GMT -6
We never had the meeting in the true sense of the word, I would still time after practice or before practice to quickly review something. We install and talk everything on the field and it usually ends up not working. Our kids have an attention span of very short and seem to have a hard retaining as we line up on the field. Plus I find their attention span shorter on the field, because there are a ton more distractions. I am hoping we are moving to a more meetings this year
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Post by groundchuck on Feb 13, 2017 5:05:26 GMT -6
During fall camp meetings are before we got out for each session. Only 15-20 minutes long. During the season we meet longer on Mondays. We had a 30 min film session after practice on Wednesday for whoever could stay. We bought pizza. Thursday we met for 10 min before going outside for a typical pregame practice.
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Post by tabs52 on Feb 13, 2017 6:23:46 GMT -6
My question about watching film after install or practice, I have always felt it made more sense to see it before you walk through run it on the field. My coach believes in watching after practice as well but I find at that point, most guys want to get out of there any ways and the focus is not there
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Post by mrjvi on Feb 13, 2017 6:35:54 GMT -6
Mondays (season) we meet after weights for film (just enough to learn from), then we go outside to re-show the O we will see and walk through any new or varied plays on our O. Any info for the day or week is done for 5 minutes at the end of practice or the 1st ten minutes during doubles. (which really aren't doubles anymore)
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Post by coachks on Feb 13, 2017 8:56:51 GMT -6
Everything I'm going to say has the caveat that we are talking about 10-15, maybe 20 minutes tops, a couple of times a week. If you are trying to meet for 30 minutes everyday... you are probably wasting time.
The value really comes down to how prepared you are for the meeting. If you have some prepared material (Cutups, powerpoint or at the least a written list of what you are going over) that has a definitive purpose (This is their top play, this is what it looks like, this is how we stop it, this is your individual job) I think they are extremely beneficial. If you have 10 clips prepared, the formations already drawn then it's easy.
If you get on HUDL and start going through the game 1 clip at a time, rewinding the clip to find your coaching point... with 30 second intervals between anything useful.... your kids are going to be bored and stop listening.
If you go up to the WHiteboard and go through a base play.... then rip through 8 adjustments and then your response, but then go back and correct yourself.... or try and install the entire offense on the whiteboard in 1 sitting.... yea, not effective.
Monday - Scouting Report, Goals for the Week. A few clips from their offense (Base 3 or 4 plays). Or a few clips of their defense vs the same scheme you run. This is especially useful to teach your scout team what to do.
Tuesday - Clips of your team vs a similar scheme (maybe last years game if it's early in the year).
Wednesday - Straight to field.
Thursday - 10ish clips of practice. Maybe some special teams.
As you get later into the season, some more time spent on meetings and less time on the field (as Wear and Tear becomes a concern).
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Post by pvogel on Feb 13, 2017 9:36:09 GMT -6
Need em. Classroom time is very important. Especially for install. More meetings earlier on in the season. At least once a week though is necessary.
Assuming that no one learns from meetings and chalk is as ignorant as saying that no one learns from walk through. Each kid learns differently. Big picture thinkers will want to see the whole thing and it will make more sense for them there then it will just having them walk to a place on a field. But other kids will do much better physically working through it. Im all for a walk through as it is necessary. But I only want to do it before stretches and everything because once we stretch were full speed through the whole practice.
Also if your kids can't pay attention in the class for football then what the heck are they doing in the classroom?? The meetings shouldnt be longer than a class period anyways but it can also serve as a way to help their study habits and attentiveness in class. When they behave in our football meetings and have good study habits in there then it helps translate to the classroom as well. They are shown and forced to behave correctly and unfortunately a lot of these kids haven't really been taught that.
1 last thing - if you don't have any meeting or chalk time because you don't think it helps them then what would happen to a kid that goes off to play in college?? How is he going to be able to learn and manage in those meetings if he doesn't understand how to read a whiteboard or watch film?
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Post by carookie on Feb 13, 2017 9:58:40 GMT -6
My question about watching film after install or practice, I have always felt it made more sense to see it before you walk through run it on the field. My coach believes in watching after practice as well but I find at that point, most guys want to get out of there any ways and the focus is not there I agree, I show films on Monday as a defense for about 10 minutes (no real chalkboard needed as they have a packet with them that has the opponent's top plays drawn up already). During film players are required to communicate out loud what they are looking for, checks and alignments. We then go outside and do the same, line up vs what we saw on film, talk and communicate where we need to be and what we expect. I expect it to be VERY loud (learning is rarely quiet). Those who are not in can stand on the field right behind the defense move about and communicate too (its more efficient than having them on the sideline). One of my jobs at this time, in addition to making sure players are lined up correctly and there eyes and mouth are right, is to keep it upbeat and intense (yeah, even a walk through can have some excitement to it if we bring it).
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 13, 2017 10:07:36 GMT -6
I don't think there's a bigger waste of time you could involve yourself in than trying to have chalk time with HS kids, but if that's your thing I'm not going to convince you otherwise.
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Post by Defcord on Feb 13, 2017 10:53:16 GMT -6
I think there is a place for chalk talk. However, I think you have to build a link between the X's and O's and real football for the kids. As coaches we naturally see the game when we see the X's and O's, but I think a lot of kids just see X's and O's and don't actually visualize their responsibility in an actual football setting. HUDL and other film systems have been a huge help for me in allowing kids to see the game and visualize their keys and responsibilities.
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Post by tabs52 on Feb 14, 2017 4:49:36 GMT -6
I don't think there's a bigger waste of time you could involve yourself in than trying to have chalk time with HS kids, but if that's your thing I'm not going to convince you otherwise. Do you care to expand on this, because I have to completely disagree with that statement
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coachpsl
Sophomore Member
“Don’t Cuss. Don’t argue with officials. And don’t lose the game.” -John Heisman
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Post by coachpsl on Feb 14, 2017 5:53:42 GMT -6
There is a place for both. The key with meetings for me is just like practice-have a plan as coachks said, restrict the time so you have to keep a good pace. Keep the energy high, if your sold on what your delivering is important to your teams success then you should be able to get up for it. Also, anytime its possible I'll get a player or 2 up to demonstrate a point or to emphasize the technique that makes the scheme work. As stated above, 10 minutes is around max time. Preseason-this is done before practice to begin install process. So they see big picture, then learn the technique in indy, put it together in group, and run it in team. In season-we are generally reviewing checks and run fits. This doesn't take much time at all.
On the same note, I would like to get better at walk through. I haven't been on a staff that really did walk throughs well. They have been fine, but from reading this board I feel like there has to be some really good walk through ideas and procedures out there.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 14, 2017 6:53:33 GMT -6
I don't think there's a bigger waste of time you could involve yourself in than trying to have chalk time with HS kids, but if that's your thing I'm not going to convince you otherwise. Do you care to expand on this, because I have to completely disagree with that statement If you think your kids are actually paying attention to you, or understand what you are saying if they are, you have entirely different kids than I've ever encountered in my life. Most chalk time I've ever been a part of has been mostly beneficial in satisfying that coach's ego.
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Post by coachluey on Feb 14, 2017 10:01:00 GMT -6
Meetings are fine as long as they are short. I remember meetings going 30 minutes or more and I would just be antsy to get out there or falling a sleep by the end. I try to keep it short unless we are watching game film, even then its pretty easy. 10-15 minutes by position, good game film, bad film, scouted film and get to the field. Nothing worse than looking back and seeing the glazed over look.
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Post by newt21 on Feb 14, 2017 10:10:53 GMT -6
We have to have them, but I'm also in a different situation than most on here. I coach MS ball and it's my time to not only go over our stuff but also rules, situations, and the game in general. I think meeting time is a perfect place to start to develop their football IQ because you can go over it in there (where some kids can/will learn it) and then when you review it on the field the other kids get their "ah ha" moment.
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Post by hunhdisciple on Feb 14, 2017 10:24:52 GMT -6
We would have a team meeting every Monday for about an hour. We would go through everything from the previous game and for the upcoming game.
I don't think they are really needed, but might work for the right group of kids.
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Post by carookie on Feb 14, 2017 10:34:26 GMT -6
I bet there is a correlation to the value a coach puts on meetings and two specific factors: 1) how much stuff you install throughout the year and 2) how important you feel it is for players to know what others are doing.
1) For me, what we do in November is the same as what we do in August; techniques, schemes, reads, they stay the same. We do what we do and try to out execute it without adding new stuff to fit an opponent week to week. So there is little use for chalkboard stuff in this regards. If I were adding stuff each week, then I probably would want some more chalk time.
2) I know a lot of coaches are big on 'getting kids to see the big picture'; for me, not so much. I don't care if my nose tackle knows who the force player is or how the coverage fits the front. I care that he does his job. And since his job is a physical response to a stimulus (and that stimulus isn't an X & O drawing) then I am better spent having him work on seeing the actual stimulus or practicing that physical response. Do some positions need to know what others are doing? Yeah, my ILBs need to know what stunts the DL are running. But that takes us back to point #1, and they will have all that down by the summer.
I guess I'm more of a DYJ type coach as opposed to knowing where all the pieces fit type. And since their jobs are physical movements in reaction to what they see, I figure time is best spent practicing those movements and seeing what they will actually see. So whereas some HS coaches will spend a couple hours a week on the whiteboard, I'm more like a few minutes.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 14, 2017 11:08:41 GMT -6
We do meetings during the first two weeks so that the kids can fill out their playbooks. We provide them with sheets that have just the OL on them and the kids have to fill in the responsibilities for each position. We do the same thing for defense.
We watch film of our opponents on Monday for a bit and that's it.
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Post by fantom on Feb 14, 2017 11:29:22 GMT -6
2) I know a lot of coaches are big on 'getting kids to see the big picture'; for me, not so much. I don't care if my nose tackle knows who the force player is or how the coverage fits the front. I care that he does his job. And since his job is a physical response to a stimulus (and that stimulus isn't an X & O drawing) then I am better spent having him work on seeing the actual stimulus or practicing that physical response. Do some positions need to know what others are doing? Yeah, my ILBs need to know what stunts the DL are running. But that takes us back to point #1, and they will have all that down by the summer. There's nothing more boring for the OL than listening to the OC talk about pass patterns for 15 minutes. I'm the OL coach and when this happens it reminds me of when I went to church as a kid and the Mass was in Latin.
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Post by tabs52 on Feb 14, 2017 12:04:24 GMT -6
Do you care to expand on this, because I have to completely disagree with that statement If you think your kids are actually paying attention to you, or understand what you are saying if they are, you have entirely different kids than I've ever encountered in my life. Most chalk time I've ever been a part of has been mostly beneficial in satisfying that coach's ego. Really? I think you have structured your chalk time completely wrong
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