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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2019 14:03:44 GMT -6
Just saw the Michigan players celebrating/jumping into the crowd hamming it up after defeating Army.
You are the #7 ranked team in the country, playing at home, and beat an unranked service academy in overtime.
My question is this : as a coach, how do you handle this. Sure, Army is a good football team, probably underrated, but Michigan is a top 10 team, with players specifically chosen to go to the University "just to play football". As a coach, how do you handle this apparent lack of perspective of the achievement?
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Post by fantom on Sept 7, 2019 14:13:01 GMT -6
A win is a win so you celebrate. They'll come down to Earth at film tomorrow.
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Post by blb on Sept 7, 2019 14:19:12 GMT -6
Just saw the Michigan players celebrating/jumping into the crowd hamming it up after defeating Army. You are the #7 ranked team in the country, playing at home, and beat an unranked service academy in overtime. My question is this : as a coach, how do you handle this. Sure, Army is a good football team, probably underrated, but Michigan is a top 10 team, with players specifically chosen to go to the University "just to play football". As a coach, how do you handle this apparent lack of perspective of the achievement?
A win is a win.
Mighty Oklahoma with Heisman Trophy Winner-#1 draft choice escaped with an OT win over Black Knights last year.
Monken-Army got greedy in 3rd Quarter when they were inside Michigan 10 and instead of playing for FG to go up 17-7 ran a Boot Pass that was pressured, all covered up and intercepted.
If they go up two scores there might have been different outcome.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2019 14:23:14 GMT -6
Just saw the Michigan players celebrating/jumping into the crowd hamming it up after defeating Army. You are the #7 ranked team in the country, playing at home, and beat an unranked service academy in overtime. My question is this : as a coach, how do you handle this. Sure, Army is a good football team, probably underrated, but Michigan is a top 10 team, with players specifically chosen to go to the University "just to play football". As a coach, how do you handle this apparent lack of perspective of the achievement?
A win is a win.
A win is a win? So if a 5th grader beats a kindergartner in a race, he should start throwing up deuces and posing for insta gram pictures? You used the word "escape"... that is what I am asking. How as a coach do you handle your team seemingly celebrating an "escape". |
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Post by blb on Sept 7, 2019 14:30:22 GMT -6
A win is a win? So if a 5th grader beats a kindergartner in a race, he should start throwing up deuces and posing for insta gram pictures?
Your analogy greatly underestimates or perhaps disrespects the Army kids-coaches.
5th graders are in Upper Elementary, kindergartners aren't even in Early El.
As big a difference as there is in Michigan and West Point's programs, USMA is still D-I/FBS.
When Pete Carroll was HC at USC he said he would never schedule service acadamies for obvious reasons.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2019 14:41:53 GMT -6
A win is a win? So if a 5th grader beats a kindergartner in a race, he should start throwing up deuces and posing for insta gram pictures?
Your analogy greatly underestimates or perhaps disrespects the Army kids-coaches.
5th graders are in Upper Elementary, kindergartners aren't even in Early El.
As big a difference as there is in Michigan and West Point's programs, USMA is still a D-I/FBS program
Well coach, you said that "a win is a win". Now you seem to be saying there is a continuum. That is what I am asking. How do you handle it as a coach when your team doesn't seem to understand where its performance fits on that continuum. |
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Post by blb on Sept 7, 2019 14:53:11 GMT -6
Your analogy greatly underestimates or perhaps disrespects the Army kids-coaches.
5th graders are in Upper Elementary, kindergartners aren't even in Early El.
As big a difference as there is in Michigan and West Point's programs, USMA is still a D-I/FBS program
Well coach, you said that "a win is a win". Now you seem to be saying there is a continuum. That is what I am asking. How do you handle it as a coach when your team doesn't seem to understand where its performance fits on that continuum.
The Michigan kids, just like Oklahoma's last year, realized how lucky they were to "escape" with a win over Army.
You only get to play once a week.
Should Michigan and Oklahoma's players-coaches hang their heads-be disappointed because they had to go OT to beat Army?
Again, that would be disrespectful of the Army kids-coaches.
Oklahoma seemed to go on and do alright last year (in the "continuum") after "sneaking by" by the Cadets.
Also - did you see the Army and Michigan kids together in corner of EZ after the game singing alma maters together?
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2019 15:09:36 GMT -6
Well coach, you said that "a win is a win". Now you seem to be saying there is a continuum. That is what I am asking. How do you handle it as a coach when your team doesn't seem to understand where its performance fits on that continuum.
The Michigan kids, just like Oklahoma's last year, realized how lucky they were to "escape" with a win over Army.
You only get to play once a week.
Should Michigan and Oklahoma's players-coaches hang their heads-be disappointed because they had to go OT to beat Army?
Again, that would be disrespectful of the Army kids-coaches.
Oklahoma seemed to go on and do alright last year (in the "continuum") after "sneaking by" by the Cadets.
Also - did you see the Army and Michigan kids together in corner of EZ after the game singing alma maters together?
Coach, you seem to be answering my questions like a modern day parent defending their misbehaving child in the principal's office. My post on this board isn't aimed at mocking Michigan. That would be appropriate for an ESPN facebook post. My post here is that disrespectful or not, clearly Michigan underperformed. As a coach, do you address the celebration of an underwhelming performance? |
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Post by blb on Sept 7, 2019 15:19:19 GMT -6
You can look at it as Michigan underperformed - depends on how good you believe them to be - or that Army played them to a virtual standstill.
Like at Norman last year.
Whom do you choose to give credit, or criticism, to?
Frankly I would never stop kids from celebrating a win. Winning is hard, I don't care who you're playing, and should never be taken for granted.
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Post by fantom on Sept 7, 2019 15:19:36 GMT -6
Your analogy greatly underestimates or perhaps disrespects the Army kids-coaches.
5th graders are in Upper Elementary, kindergartners aren't even in Early El.
As big a difference as there is in Michigan and West Point's programs, USMA is still a D-I/FBS program
Well coach, you said that "a win is a win". Now you seem to be saying there is a continuum. That is what I am asking. How do you handle it as a coach when your team doesn't seem to understand where its performance fits on that continuum. Immediately after the game there's no reason for them to understand. It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. In the locker room, briefly talk about it then get down to business tomorrow. |
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Post by freezeoption on Sept 7, 2019 16:33:58 GMT -6
I didn't get to see the overtime. I think by half time Michigan was not taking them lightly. I'm sure they didn't take them lightly coming. This isn't high school or junior high. Those guys are recruited to play football at West Point just like the guys at Michigan. The difference is the guys for Army are making a long commitment to serve our country that may cost them their lives. To me, that makes discipline and team bonding incredible, which is a great advantage. That and with the talent Army has been getting lately makes them a force to reckon with.
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Post by Defcord on Sept 7, 2019 16:42:17 GMT -6
A win is a win? So if a 5th grader beats a kindergartner in a race, he should start throwing up deuces and posing for insta gram pictures? You used the word "escape"... that is what I am asking. How as a coach do you handle your team seemingly celebrating an "escape". Say I am in the woods with a rifle. I see a bear. He sees me. I freak out and drop my rifle. He runs after me. Somehow I escape the woods alive. I had a rifle I should have won, I still celebrate. If I am the coach, I tell them good win and start correcting. On a side note, was the left guard, 74, downfield on the RPO in overtime that got called for PI? I hate RPOs and might just be hoping he was so I can complain about them ruining the game. |
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Post by silkyice on Sept 7, 2019 16:46:08 GMT -6
If you can't have fun winning a game in overtime against a team with the second longest win streak in the country and a team that took a playoff team last year to overtime, then why the hell are you playing?
Celebrate a win for 24 hours. Mourn a loss for 24 hours. Then flush it and get back to work.
Also, maybe they are celebrating that their national championship hopes are still alive instead of being flushed.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 7, 2019 16:48:55 GMT -6
Monken-Army got greedy in 3rd Quarter when they were inside Michigan 10 and instead of playing for FG to go up 17-7 ran a Boot Pass that was pressured, all covered up and intercepted. If they go up two scores there might have been different outcome. When the FB moved on 2nd and goal at the 1 to make it 2nd and goal at the 6, I said right there to others that they would lose. Wish I was wrong and hate that I was right. |
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Post by carookie on Sept 7, 2019 16:51:36 GMT -6
A win is a win? So if a 5th grader beats a kindergartner in a race, he should start throwing up deuces and posing for insta gram pictures? You used the word "escape"... that is what I am asking. How as a coach do you handle your team seemingly celebrating an "escape". I would say there are a few material differences: 1) Does the 5th grader, in losing the race, basically lose all chances at being the 'national champion at foot racing'? Because that would happen to Michigan. In essence they are celebrating still having an opportunity to achieve a great goal. 2) Was there ever a chance at them losing to the kindergartner. We have to ignore preconceived attributes here, you have to base the perspective not so much as barely beating a team they/you/most people thought they would handle; but rather understand it from a position of them beating a team they were in a dog fight with. 3) I think your perception of the type of celebration may be swaying your perspective. If the celebration were: 'High fiving teammates and hugging' would that raise the amount of ire as 'throwing up deuces and posing for instagram'? Would you want them to not high five each other but rather walk off the field hang dogged, because both are celebrations? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2019 16:59:15 GMT -6
If you can't have fun winning a game in overtime against a team with the second longest win streak in the country and a team that took a playoff team last year to overtime, then why the hell are you playing? Celebrate a win for 24 hours. Mourn a loss for 24 hours. Then flush it and get back to work. Also, maybe they are celebrating that their national championship hopes are still alive instead of being flushed. You are playing to celebrate beating Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State etc? I understand the points made here freezeoption but I will just say this. The University of Michigan's athletic expenses are projected to be just shy of $200 million for the year. A few years ago, The Army West Point athletic associations expenses were a shade over 5 million. blb You didn't agree with my kinder-5th grade comments, but clearly you also validated the idea of a continuum. At what point is it not facetious but just a low bar/low expectations? 5th beating a 3rd grader? Looks like I am in the minority here, but I don't think I would be excited/happy as a coach of a team to see my players celebrating an "escape", particularly if we were a team that has aspirations of a championship |
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Post by Defcord on Sept 7, 2019 17:02:18 GMT -6
If you can't have fun winning a game in overtime against a team with the second longest win streak in the country and a team that took a playoff team last year to overtime, then why the hell are you playing? Celebrate a win for 24 hours. Mourn a loss for 24 hours. Then flush it and get back to work. Also, maybe they are celebrating that their national championship hopes are still alive instead of being flushed. You are playing to celebrate beating Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State etc? I understand the points made here freezeoption but I will just say this. The University of Michigan's athletic expenses are projected to be just shy of $200 million for the year. A few years ago, The Army West Point athletic associations expenses were a shade over 5 million. blb You didn't agree with my kinder-5th grade comments, but clearly you also validated the idea of a continuum. At what point is it not facetious but just a low bar/low expectations? 5th beating a 3rd grader? Looks like I am in the minority here, but I don't think I would be excited/happy as a coach of a team to see my players celebrating an "escape", particularly if we were a team that has aspirations of a championship Of course most aren’t excited about it. But what’s the alternative? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2019 17:10:34 GMT -6
You are playing to celebrate beating Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State etc? I understand the points made here freezeoption but I will just say this. The University of Michigan's athletic expenses are projected to be just shy of $200 million for the year. A few years ago, The Army West Point athletic associations expenses were a shade over 5 million. blb You didn't agree with my kinder-5th grade comments, but clearly you also validated the idea of a continuum. At what point is it not facetious but just a low bar/low expectations? 5th beating a 3rd grader? Looks like I am in the minority here, but I don't think I would be excited/happy as a coach of a team to see my players celebrating an "escape", particularly if we were a team that has aspirations of a championship Of course most aren’t excited about it. But what’s the alternative? that is what I’ve been asking? Not so much condemning the Michigan players because as I said that’s not appropriate for this board but more of a Facebook ESPN post mocking them, but rather asking from a coach’s point of view when you see your players seemingly very excited to achieve something that should have been accomplished easily, how does one handle that? Does one even handle it? Is it a sign that the team has very low expectations? Is it a sign they dont have what it takes to make the 14 week journey? |
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Post by silkyice on Sept 7, 2019 17:24:07 GMT -6
Of course most aren’t excited about it. But what’s the alternative? that is what I’ve been asking? Not so much condemning the Michigan players because as I said that’s not appropriate for this board but more of a Facebook ESPN post mocking them, but rather asking from a coach’s point of view when you see your players seemingly very excited to achieve something that should have BEEN ACCOMPLISHED EASILY, how does one handle that? Does one even handle it? Is it a sign that the team has very low expectations? Is it a sign they dont have what it takes to make the 14 week journey? 5 years ago? Sure. Coach, Army is good. No one wants to play them. No one. In general, winning is not easy. The days of just showing up and winning (for the most part) are over. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2019 17:43:40 GMT -6
that is what I’ve been asking? Not so much condemning the Michigan players because as I said that’s not appropriate for this board but more of a Facebook ESPN post mocking them, but rather asking from a coach’s point of view when you see your players seemingly very excited to achieve something that should have BEEN ACCOMPLISHED EASILY, how does one handle that? Does one even handle it? Is it a sign that the team has very low expectations? Is it a sign they dont have what it takes to make the 14 week journey? 5 years ago? Sure. Coach, Army is good. No one wants to play them. No one. In general, winning is not easy. The days of just showing up and winning (for the most part) are over. If Army won, and then ran the table, are they in the CFP playoff? |
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Post by Defcord on Sept 7, 2019 17:48:08 GMT -6
Of course most aren’t excited about it. But what’s the alternative? that is what I’ve been asking? Not so much condemning the Michigan players because as I said that’s not appropriate for this board but more of a Facebook ESPN post mocking them, but rather asking from a coach’s point of view when you see your players seemingly very excited to achieve something that should have been accomplished easily, how does one handle that? Does one even handle it? Is it a sign that the team has very low expectations? Is it a sign they dont have what it takes to make the 14 week journey? I think celebration is probably more in response to the overtime and getting the job done when it wasn’t a given. Army scored first in that overtime and that game was on serious question at that point. So when looking at the aggregate experience I understand what are you asking but most of the emotion was probably fueled by the finale. |
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Post by fantom on Sept 7, 2019 17:51:28 GMT -6
If you can't have fun winning a game in overtime against a team with the second longest win streak in the country and a team that took a playoff team last year to overtime, then why the hell are you playing? Celebrate a win for 24 hours. Mourn a loss for 24 hours. Then flush it and get back to work. Also, maybe they are celebrating that their national championship hopes are still alive instead of being flushed. You are playing to celebrate beating Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State etc? I understand the points made here freezeoption but I will just say this. The University of Michigan's athletic expenses are projected to be just shy of $200 million for the year. A few years ago, The Army West Point athletic associations expenses were a shade over 5 million. blb You didn't agree with my kinder-5th grade comments, but clearly you also validated the idea of a continuum. At what point is it not facetious but just a low bar/low expectations? 5th beating a 3rd grader? Looks like I am in the minority here, but I don't think I would be excited/happy as a coach of a team to see my players celebrating an "escape", particularly if we were a team that has aspirations of a championship Keep in mind that the discrepancy in budgets isn't quite as bad as it seems given that every student at Army is on scholarship. Does the reaction of the players after the game tell us anything about their overall attitude? Who knows? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2019 18:07:25 GMT -6
You are playing to celebrate beating Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State etc? I understand the points made here freezeoption but I will just say this. The University of Michigan's athletic expenses are projected to be just shy of $200 million for the year. A few years ago, The Army West Point athletic associations expenses were a shade over 5 million. blb You didn't agree with my kinder-5th grade comments, but clearly you also validated the idea of a continuum. At what point is it not facetious but just a low bar/low expectations? 5th beating a 3rd grader? Looks like I am in the minority here, but I don't think I would be excited/happy as a coach of a team to see my players celebrating an "escape", particularly if we were a team that has aspirations of a championship Keep in mind that the discrepancy in budgets isn't quite as bad as it seems given that every student at Army is on scholarship. Does the reaction of the players after the game tell us anything about their overall attitude? Who knows? The U of Michigan spent about 27 million in financial aid... So, $173 million to 5 million. But it does seem I am the only one here thinking this is a thing... so it may not be a thing. |
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Post by silkyice on Sept 7, 2019 18:22:49 GMT -6
5 years ago? Sure. Coach, Army is good. No one wants to play them. No one. In general, winning is not easy. The days of just showing up and winning (for the most part) are over. If Army won, and then ran the table, are they in the CFP playoff? Not sure what that has to do with this thread. But possibly. If Michigan ends up winning Big 10 and Pac 12 has no team worth it again, and Bama wins the SEC (meaning only one SEC team gets in), then sure, they have a chance. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2019 18:35:28 GMT -6
If Army won, and then ran the table, are they in the CFP playoff? Not sure what that has to do with this thread. But possibly. If Michigan ends up winning Big 10 and Pac 12 has no team worth it again, and Bama wins the SEC (meaning only one SEC team gets in), then sure, they have a chance. It had to do with the Standard of accomplishment and level of competition (albeit a perceived one) I guess I am just having a hard time picturing Bama leaping into the stands and celebrating after winning an overtime game vs Army. That doesn't mean it is wrong I suppose. |
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Post by Defcord on Sept 7, 2019 18:48:18 GMT -6
Not sure what that has to do with this thread. But possibly. If Michigan ends up winning Big 10 and Pac 12 has no team worth it again, and Bama wins the SEC (meaning only one SEC team gets in), then sure, they have a chance. It had to do with the Standard of accomplishment and level of competition (albeit a perceived one) I guess I am just having a hard time picturing Bama leaping into the stands and celebrating after winning an overtime game vs Army. That doesn't mean it is wrong I suppose. Yeah but there is also this from Dabo: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.greenvilleonline.com/amp/2127240002Basically says he never wants to walk of the field and not have joy from a win. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 19:51:30 GMT -6
Celebrate every win. They dont always happen and they arent always easy. 24 hour rule, you get 24 hours to celebrate the win, then we gotta get our mistakes corrected and start moving on to the next opponent.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2019 20:17:45 GMT -6
Celebrate every win. They dont always happen and they arent always easy. 24 hour rule, you get 24 hours to celebrate the win, then we gotta get our mistakes corrected and start moving on to the next opponent. Yes, I get that. I guess carookie is correct in that while celebrating a hard earned win is absolutely acceptable, I think that vaulting into the stands to celebrate a win against a program that by the metric/standards Michigan "should" be judging themselves against should have been a much easier task would worry me that my team doesn't have what it takes to make it where we want. So my question was how does a coach handle that. Seems like the consensus is "there is nothing to handle" |
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Post by Defcord on Sept 7, 2019 20:22:37 GMT -6
Celebrate every win. They dont always happen and they arent always easy. 24 hour rule, you get 24 hours to celebrate the win, then we gotta get our mistakes corrected and start moving on to the next opponent. Yes, I get that. I guess carookie is correct in that while celebrating a hard earned win is absolutely acceptable, I think that vaulting into the stands to celebrate a win against a program that by the metric/standards Michigan "should" be judging themselves against should have been a much easier task would worry me that my team doesn't have what it takes to make it where we want. So my question was how does a coach handle that. Seems like the consensus is "there is nothing to handle" How would you answer your own question? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 7, 2019 20:34:16 GMT -6
Yes, I get that. I guess carookie is correct in that while celebrating a hard earned win is absolutely acceptable, I think that vaulting into the stands to celebrate a win against a program that by the metric/standards Michigan "should" be judging themselves against should have been a much easier task would worry me that my team doesn't have what it takes to make it where we want. So my question was how does a coach handle that. Seems like the consensus is "there is nothing to handle" How would you answer your own question? I am unsure. I don't know if addressing it would be detrimental to the long term outcome. Maybe make a mental note, and then focus a bit more on the process and "the bar" as the season goes on, in off season etc. |
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