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Post by blb on Apr 27, 2006 9:26:30 GMT -6
Our state high school athletic association likewise puts out a pamplet on parent-coach communication. Our state director is considered a national leader in Educational Athletics. In that pamphlet it advises that playing time is not an appropriate topic for discussion.
Perhaps you can contact him and straighten him out, dmp225.
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Post by dmp225 on Apr 27, 2006 10:21:13 GMT -6
wow...that is not a good situation to be in. It seems that the school is trying to back the coaches with the pamphlet they put out....but nothing is bigger than the local "good old boy network"
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Post by dmp225 on Apr 27, 2006 10:23:15 GMT -6
blb, there is nothing to straighten out...it is called a personal philosophy. Next time you go on a job interview, you let the principal and AD know that you will never speak to a parent. See if it gets you the job and let me know.
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Post by airman on Apr 27, 2006 10:27:38 GMT -6
frosty westering, former head coach at pac. luthern Uni, told me one time, do not see it as a us vs them situation.
you know he has what they call a after glow. after each game, they team, their parents and coachse get together to celebrate the victory or loss. find good things about each game. give a few ata boys to some individuals.
he said every coach should invite the parents into the locker room after the game.
it should not be a us vs them mentality.
before you think frosty is some wimp or some thing, the man has a ton of wins at the collge level and several naia and ncaa d3 national championships.
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Post by superpower on Apr 27, 2006 10:42:02 GMT -6
I completely agree that coaches need to work WITH the parents, and I work very hard to give them ownership. I was just saying that I don't feel playing time is an issue that should be discussed. There are other issues that I am willing to discuss.
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Post by blb on Apr 27, 2006 12:09:49 GMT -6
We do a good job with our parents and so we get a lot of cooperation. For example in two weeks we will have our annual Touchdown Club golf outing, put on by the parents, which if past history holds true, will net us between $8-10,000.
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Post by dmp225 on Apr 27, 2006 12:34:51 GMT -6
i totally agree with airman's comments. If you show your face to the parents, most of the time they will not complain to you about little things. Most head coaches who have problems with parents and admin. are usually the ones who do not ever show their face. They just hide in the weightroom, or in their classroom. The kids can tell if you are a fake.
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Post by bulldog on Apr 27, 2006 13:26:09 GMT -6
Playing time is not an appropriate topic to discuss with parents. If you think that it is, then you probably have not had too many of those conversations with an emotional parent who wants to have a meeting right after the game. You invite the irrational discussion because the only way to get Junior more PT is to reduce someone else's. How many of the PT discussions start, 'My son is better than Johnny. He should be playing more.' It's a no-win and puts the Coach on the defensive - having to discuss why Johnny is better than Junior. How could you talk about Johnny (as a comparision with Junior) with Junior's parents - and not invite Johnny's parents? It's just not appropriate.
What one person sees as cowardice and hiding, I see as a rational policy designed to protect ALL the players. Remember football is a team sport and the coach is responsible for doing the right thing for the team, not just Junior.
There are other ways to accomplish the same thing. Discuss with the parents how Junior can improve. Tell them that with improvement will come more PT. Be specific. Tell the parents to have Junior talk with his position coach on a regular basis about his improvement and to get specific feedback on his deficiencies.
Dmp225, your statement,
"Most head coaches who have problems with parents and admin. are usually the ones who do not ever show their face."
is a broad generalization that is not true in my experience. In my experience, most coaches who have problems with parents have an environment where the parents are competitive, irrational, emotional, and/or gossip-prone. Most of the time, the environment has caused the school to have a high coach turnover and thus, a cycle of failure. Again, in my experience, most coaches that problems with admin usually have weak or irrational admin.
I have attended seminars where those that have studied HS athletics have spoken about the problems associated with sports. Invariably, parents are cited as THE major problem. The last parent meeting we had, the AD had the section admin come and speak. He asked the parents to raise their hands if they thought their kid was a scholarship athelete. No one raised their hand. The admin then told them they were lying. He cited statistics that showed that 72% of parents think their kid is capable of a scholarship. When he mentioned this fact along with the fact that less than 1% actually scholarship, his point was well made.
And dmp225, your statement,
"If you show your face to the parents, most of the time they will not complain to you about little things."
is also not exactly correct IMO. While I agree most of the parents are supportive, those are the silent majority. There are some parents who will take EVERY opportunity to compain - about the little things. They are the same ones who typically think they are much smarter than the coach.
I have coached in environments where the parents support the coach, judge the team by their discipline, hard work, and dedication - where the rational parents attack and isolate the irrational ones. And I have coached where the parents are out of control - feeding off gossip, bad mouthing the coach in the stands and generally failing to understand the team concept. If you have a good environment - great! But there are a lot of places with a bad environment - thru no fault of the coach.
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turney
Junior Member
Spread'em and Shread'em[F4:coachturney]
Posts: 279
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Post by turney on Apr 27, 2006 13:53:57 GMT -6
We talk about playing time with the parents as long as the athlete is in the meeting also. That will eliminate a lot of the parent complaints. If the meeting does occur, then we point out what they are not doing to enhance their opportunity (summer weight room ect.). Never bring up a kid whos parents are not in the meeting.
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Post by knighter on Apr 27, 2006 15:13:19 GMT -6
I will not discuss playing time, period. I will discuss what junior should do to get better and when he reaches what i think is the level needed to play, he will play. dmp i realize you have your philosophy on what is allowed and what is not allowed, but PT in MY philosophy is not something we will be discussing. I would have to have 2 sets of parents and 2 kids in, as junior has to play in front of someone else, and that is usually what they want to say. My son is better than so and so. We each run things our own way. I flat out told the AD and HS principal in my interview yesterday I will not discuss playing time. I have full support on this issue from all levels of administration in my current position on this and my father, who is a superintendent, also says he believes in this philosophy as well. If it costs me a job, I didn't want to be there anyway as I have no intentions of changing my beliefs. That puts a coach, as well as assistant coaches in a no win situation. We have not had a complaint in 5 of my 6 years here. My first year we did, and it turned into a pissin match, and no one won.
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Post by blb on Apr 27, 2006 16:29:29 GMT -6
airman, Frosty Westerling is a college football coaching legend, and for good reason. Had the great good fortune to hear him at the AFCA national one year. No question, it's not an "us vs. them" situation, or shouldn't be. We try to build a football family - everybody included.
But I know from coaching both college and HS that parent-coach relationships are different at those two levels.
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Post by runtheball86 on Apr 28, 2006 7:19:48 GMT -6
Coaches who are scared of parents and who complaion about the admin. just make me angry. Get a backbone, or get out! In any other profession you have to stand by your work to your bosses and other people in the company, why should coaching be any different? None of us are talking about being scared of parents .... harassed might be a better description. Regarding other professions - tell me another profession where you have to explain (or listen to concerns about) how you do your work to the public. NOTHING is worse in coaching than the fact that parents/fans feel it is their RIGHT to talk, ad nauseum, about our decisions. We are WORKING .... stay away! Coaching is not different - we do have to stand by our work to our bosses ... but EVERY parent is not our boss ... the Athletic Director and the Principal and the Board of Ed are the bosses ... NOT Bubba and Bertha Beernuts!
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Post by runtheball86 on Apr 28, 2006 7:48:00 GMT -6
blb, there is nothing to straighten out...it is called a personal philosophy. Next time you go on a job interview, you let the principal and AD know that you will never speak to a parent. See if it gets you the job and let me know. Last week we presented our AD with a handout that outlines what topics we will and will NOT talk about with parents and players and when we will hold such discussions. The AD supporterd our handout 100% ... parents, of course, are not so supportive but it is now our team policy and the parameters are set. PM me if you want to be emailed a copy. Please dont just put your email here in the messages ... send me a PM.
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Post by airman on Apr 28, 2006 9:30:17 GMT -6
if it were me I would head down to the coffee shop and see what they have to say.
it is easy to talk behind ones back but to there face is a different think.
I would start off by saying, hum I hear you guys are unhappy with me, so what are we going to do to turn around the program.?
then I would say, we need this and that equipment to become a better team, so I can full expect some donations from you guys as you guys want a winner. ask them how committed they are to having their town be a winner.
I would have saturday moring coffee with them every week. we would go over the game and what we can do. john mckissic down in south carolina talked about going to the barber shop on saturday mornings to talk with the people.
when you confront your critics head on, they have a tendencey to back down or help out.
for example, I was at a school my first year coaching and the team was not so good. the coach was okay but the team had a history of winning 1 to 4 games a season.
in the lounge, this one teacher used to complain and then the rest would complain. one day I was in there and he started to complain with the usual group.
i turned and told him this, well you are not helping much. you moved two towns over so your child could play on a team which constantly wins. you lived in this town until your kid got to be h.s. age and then you moved.
also, we were looking for assistant last year and had to take nonstaff memebers to fill the ranks. if you think you can do so good, get out there and show us how it is done. you know you talk a good game but you do not back it up. you can either be part of the problem or part of the solution.
he and his pals on staff never said a word again.
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Post by blb on Apr 28, 2006 9:38:26 GMT -6
Great story, airman. And I agree 100% - many critics lose a lot of courage or conviction when they have to talk face-to-face instead of on the phone or through email.
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Post by bulldog on Apr 28, 2006 10:34:09 GMT -6
While the small town story is nice, not everyone coaches in such a small community. I coach in a city with about 50,000 people and 1 high school. There are at least 10 coffee shops and about 4 Starbucks. Confronting gossipers is not practical. And I don't think intimidation is a lasting solution. They will just wait until you leave.
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Post by airman on Apr 28, 2006 12:24:51 GMT -6
I agree in a large town setting it would be difficult to go sit down with the coffee people. i have found however large towns do not always care what there teams are doing as well compared to small towns.
small towns friday night is a big deal. stores close early so people can get to the game. it is the only time some people even get out.
i am not even say confront them as much as go talk to them.
I know a guy who has a deal with the dinner on saturday mornings. he brings in a tv and they watch the game as a community. the dinner likes it because they get a lot of people in for breakfast.
some times it is merely that you are acessable to the people.
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racky
Probationary Member
Posts: 5
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Post by racky on May 1, 2006 12:16:41 GMT -6
Well I have read all the comments and decided to put in my 2 cents.
The one suggestion of having the AD & Principal go over and sign the team rules and punishments BEFORE the season starts is great that would have helped me in one problem I had.
Another comment about Us vs Them is also correct, you need the parents to be supportive.
As for the NO DISCUSSION of group the only one I really believe in is the Other Student-Athlete other than your son.
The position/Personnel decisions I will talk about but not too much and always keep it positive his kid and the one in front of him.
As for playing time, I steal one of the sayings I heard my father use for 40 years. "Have you been to practice and watched your son, now go to practice and watch the player(s) in front of him. Not just one day but every day for a week and see who shows up, every day. Because that what I see. Until you do that you don't have a bases to speak from besides what your son tells you. SO come watch then we will talk again." If they do come and watch for that week or longer, he sits down and discuss anyting they want, except for other player's faults. And make sure you have the player in the meeting also.
But in the end you are the Head Coach and need to run the team, if you let other people tell you what to do (I don't mean advice) but the how to's, what to's and who to's then you are not the Head Coach, you are just another assistant. I love sitting around my house, coffee shop, pizza joint talking about what we did in the last game, why my offense is better than the one they saw on the boobtube last Saturday/Sunday. You might just find a supporter or an assistant coach that never got asked before.
M2C
Racky
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