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Post by mahonz on Jun 14, 2019 10:23:56 GMT -6
I started coaching youth football in 1983. There were 10K participants in the League. Today, the League is 4 times bigger area wise with less than 4K participants.
The first issue was cost of living out pacing wages in the 80's. Mom had to go to work. The "latchkey" kid was now a real thing.
Then parents started having less kids. Math is a real thing. My grandparents had 27 grandchildren. My parents had 4. As a grandpa I have 6 and compared to my friends that are my age, Im unique.
Then the NFL tried to cover up how they had been treating their players for 50 years and the rest is history.
Our game may never recover. The Org I coach in fielded 45 teams in 2012. They will be lucky if they field 20 in 2019. The parents have the last say and they are hard to convince that football has any value when it comes to their own kids. Trust me...we have tried everything to include no fees.
Brick wall.
This trickles up. Since youth sports are now a cheap after school babysitting service...the youth Orgs now see opportunity and offer up ridiculous pie in the sky formats meant to force kids to become one sport specialists.
Football isnt one of these sports so the HS Programs are suffering as well. With open enrollment within Distinct....if you win you probably survive...if not you dont.
Sorry to be such a sad sack but Im beginning to embrace reality. The NFL has killed itself.
My take.
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Post by mahonz on Jul 21, 2018 17:18:10 GMT -6
Heading toward a lock...... How about we spin it this way: HOW DO YOU ANSWER PEOPLE WHO RAISE CONCERNS ABOUT FOOTBALL? I tried to have a discussion with a Parent a few weeks ago...she accused all football coaches of child abuse. It was best I just walked away at that point.
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Post by mahonz on May 31, 2018 15:24:18 GMT -6
Coaches Took over a program two years ago and have been trying to build a relationship with the youth program. I give them open door policy, put together playbooks and drill books for them. they keep coming back and saying that they are not a feeder program for the high school team, how would some of you react and handle this? Maybe the previous Staff somehow burned a bridge. Maybe the Header was a Douche Bag like 50slants Header. Maybe your playbooks are too difficult to understand or to implement for a Dad with a Whistle. Does your Program win? Might be something there if not. Host some off season non systems classroom Clinics for the youth coaches and then do a few non systems summer camps for their players. Make them free and you should get a good turnout. Feed them and you should get a great turnout. Hard to say why they wont let you in. My youth Org feeds 5 HS Programs and everyone gets along very well.
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Post by mahonz on Mar 8, 2018 17:54:01 GMT -6
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Post by mahonz on Mar 8, 2018 17:17:20 GMT -6
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Post by mahonz on Mar 4, 2018 21:40:02 GMT -6
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Post by mahonz on Feb 18, 2018 11:39:03 GMT -6
First thing we will do in a situation if we are in my classroom is escape. I keep a hammer in my desk so I can bust out the window and then rake out the glass with the hammer. The kids will then jump out of the window onto the ground below (about a 6 foot drop) and will then go into the woods that surround the school. We are not going to sit in a corner of the room and wait there and hope a shooter does not enter the classroom. While they are jumping out of the window, I will be armed with my hammer and hiding up against the wall next to the door. If it opens, I will take a swing. Once all the kids are out, I will leave the classroom. Im not a teacher but I would suggest a 10 pound Maul with a 36 inch handle. A hammer would take too long and probably cut you up pretty good even if the glass is tempered. I like the way you think. I hope my grand-kids end up in a classroom run by a teacher that has a plan to try and get the kids out of the building rather than hiding and waiting. Plus if the perp enters your classroom while you are waiting behind the door one swing with your Maul and that f-ker is down. Thank you for this Thread. The bravery some of these teachers display when the chips are down is impressive and appreciated....and most certainly goes way beyond any of your job descriptions.
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Post by mahonz on Feb 16, 2018 16:31:29 GMT -6
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Post by mahonz on Feb 14, 2018 11:00:18 GMT -6
Played tackle football from 8-20 years old. The usual minor injuries and one known concussion. Was a competitive freestyle skier from 14-24 but started when I was about 10 years old. Many breaks, strains, pulls, twists, punctures, jams, concussions. Im 60 now and am feeling it. The Winter Olympics should be banned from anyone under the age of 30
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Post by mahonz on Jan 31, 2018 9:45:25 GMT -6
USA Football has a Program, the CDC has a Program as do a few States. Some local League require some EMT basics. My League requires a few Clinics that every Head Coach must attend. One in particular includes Rules, Ethics and Integrity which I believe is the most important and certainly the most abused. I have taken the USA Football Certifications. Given enough bananas a Monkey could pass this test but at least its forced learning and making coaches more aware their surroundings. It covers hydration, concussion awareness, emergency procedures, tackling techniques, blocking techniques, practice organization, fitting equipment and the like. Watch a video, answer some multiple choice questions and keep trying live until you pass. I have been coaching youth football for the most part since 1983 and today's coaches are far more informed than ever before. Its simply up to them to apply this information which IMHO 95% will happily do. We all understand that our Sport is under attack and that adjustments are necessary in order to survive. A Government Mandate is not surviving. I totally agree. Thank you for coming on here with information and not a lesson on debate that doesn't need to be had. If you listen to the Coach and Coordinator podcast the HC at Webb City, MO talks about youth football in depth and what he does to help those coaches. His method may not help some coaches around the country but I think if the pee wee program is affiliated with the school system then it is a good model to help run a successful youth program. What is surprising...or really kinda sad...is that this debate always includes football coaches attacking our game due to some preconceived notions that tackle football is somehow a bad thing. Tackle football is never a bad thing...at any age until actual studies about CTE and how it relates to tackle football players no longer conflict and prove out as fact. I personally believe CTE as it relates to the NFL is quite possibly self inflicted. Considering atmosphere, lifestyle, steroids, play at all costs, non use of certain equipment and the like....these are things that do not exist at the lower levels as the standard when it comes to playing tackle football. Even the NFL is now changing their stripes dramatically but it might be too late. Damage is done. Anyway....I would think all football coaches would at least be all for promoting this game regardless. I have coached 5/6 year olds as well as Adult Pro Indoor Arena...and I must admit the 5/6 year olds were a TON more fun. I also coached 12/13 flag every winter when I lived in the desert. Flag is exponentially more dangerous than tackle will ever be. Its the only time as a coach where I honestly worried about injury all the time. Flag is simply not the answer if safety is the only concern. Football is an aggressive Sport and its impossible to take the aggression out of football. Im now hearing about youth League concepts whereas the players are dressed in shells but playing flag. Too me that sounds like playing tackle football with less protection...just like the NFL did for 75 years.
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Post by mahonz on Jan 31, 2018 8:17:04 GMT -6
All youth football leagues...no background check... no certification(s)....no League. The Insurance Companies mandate this. Every single last one of them Nationwide. Its actually more difficult to fill positions now a day and that is a good thing. Well that’s good. What are the certs they have to get to be able to coach? USA Football has a Program, the CDC has a Program as do a few States. Some local League require some EMT basics. My League requires a few Clinics that every Head Coach must attend. One in particular includes Rules, Ethics and Integrity which I believe is the most important and certainly the most abused. I have taken the USA Football Certifications. Given enough bananas a Monkey could pass this test but at least its forced learning and making coaches more aware their surroundings. It covers hydration, concussion awareness, emergency procedures, tackling techniques, blocking techniques, practice organization, fitting equipment and the like. Watch a video, answer some multiple choice questions and keep trying live until you pass. I have been coaching youth football for the most part since 1983 and today's coaches are far more informed than ever before. Its simply up to them to apply this information which IMHO 95% will happily do. We all understand that our Sport is under attack and that adjustments are necessary in order to survive. A Government Mandate is not surviving.
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Post by mahonz on Jan 30, 2018 19:18:43 GMT -6
This isn’t about debating the benefits of youth football, it’s football being attacked by alarmist politics. This is the kind of stuff that slowly erodes the base of the game we all love and know is no where near as dangerous as some in the media and political realm want all the moms out there to think it is. I see what you’re saying and agree but if you look at all the rules changes and the emphasis on safer tackling techniques that state associations are pushing to make the game safer I don’t see youth leagues doing the same. Believe me, if every youth league was required to have coaches be certified I would be more on board but without the pay most places can only take who is willing to volunteer for the job. IMO this isn’t a horrible move and it’s sad that the the state legislation even has to get involved because nothing significant has changed in youth football. All youth football leagues...no background check... no certification(s)....no League. The Insurance Companies mandate this. Every single last one of them Nationwide. Its actually more difficult to fill positions now a day and that is a good thing.
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Post by mahonz on Sept 11, 2017 15:55:18 GMT -6
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Post by mahonz on May 10, 2017 9:01:57 GMT -6
changingthegameproject.com/why-kids-quit-sports/Virtually every single issue addressed in this article can be fixed by a coach. Unfortunately, I have been surrounded by youth coaches who do everything they can to FURTHER these issues. I am not trying to be disrespectful of the OP but this thread, in and of itself, shows what is wrong with youth sports. It'd be nice to see a Youth Football thread entitled "How Do I Maximize All Of The Kids' Playing Time?". Something else from that guy. Occasionally, you want to check your source. Specifically, 4:50 > 5:20. Just a bit hypocritical, IMO. Most youth coaches (especially football coaches) don't expend their time and effort on coaching " elite youth <insert sport here>" or, elite anything else. First; not one of my kids couldn't play soccer worth a sh1t. So, basically, this guy wouldn't even give them the time of day- except for the amount of time it would take him to tell them they aren't good enough to play for him. Secondly, if my worst player is only marginally worse than my best player, it's pretty easy for me to be really impartial about playing time, etc... I don't know of any sport activity- or, even the activity of general sports participation- that can withstand a 70% attrition rate and still survive as an activity. I won't even bother ripping up everything else that guy states or says. I can't believe that there are people that even get suckered in by that kind of BS. ROFL! 7 out of 10 quit youth sports? Not in my neck of the woods. Sokker has and is still exploding by leaps and bounds at all levels. The jurisdictions cant build facilities fast enough. Curious where he got that info.
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Post by mahonz on May 8, 2017 16:45:19 GMT -6
Not a teacher or a HS Coach but reading threads like this over the last 10 years it seems too me coaching has become.... I cant believe I get paid to so this !!! to... I cant believe what they pay me do this
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Post by mahonz on Apr 23, 2017 18:50:58 GMT -6
One more item while Im ranting....
In 2012 I had 24 players on my roster. In 2013 I had 18.
That is far more "dangerous" to the game than anything else. You cant possible hit less with fewer players...in games or practice. Fortunately my Org started folding some teams and we are back up to 25 players now.
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Post by mahonz on Apr 23, 2017 18:15:29 GMT -6
Our large Independent League was one of the last to align with USA Football.
They plastered their stuff everywhere that off season. Out of roughly 7000 Members with numbers growing even thru the Great Recession....5800 signed up. This was in 2013.
Coincidence? Nope. Our League simply admitted to the uneducated that the issues going on with the NFL was now a Little League issues too. The NFl and LL is apples and oranges. Last years registration numbers...4700. Some Orgs have lost 50% of their numbers in 4 years...right after we aligned with USA Football.
Now next to every Coach listed on every website is this really cool USA Football Certified Icon. Yay! Now when Parents ask me what it takes to become certified I tell them truth. If you give a Monkey enough bananas he will pass that test too.
I'd suggest not doing this since it crippled our League. Best to just train up your coaches internally and coach responsibly like you have always done in the past....and talk to as many parents as you possibly can. Town Hall Meetings seem to be working for my Org. Feed em and they will show up too at least listen. We went from roughly 900 players in 2012 to 650 in 2014 and were pushing 800 for 2016.
My Org is one of 17 that make up the League that has survived for almost 80 years now. Certain Orgs are crumbling right now and it all happened the off season the League decided to "educate" the masses via website information.
Total fail.
BTW in 2010 there were 318 teams in the League and growing ( slowly). Last season there was 210 but you have to consider that while the numbers were shrinking the last 4 years the League was actually absorbing neighboring Orgs not in our League that were failing. So its way worse than what the numbers say alone.
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Post by mahonz on Apr 5, 2017 20:01:12 GMT -6
The best Org I have coached for had a very successful process for hiring. One person did the hiring. Its tough to interview under a Spanish Inquisition type atmosphere. One on one gets it done. The person hiring is also not part of the Board. He is a coach. They do not care about coaching experience. They only care about managerial experience at work. They had a nice training program in place for the novice. They wanted people that could manage people. If a candidate has experience then its a bonus but not required since great managers are also quick studies. They have been doing it this way for about 15 years now and it has worked very well. BTW Background checks are required by the Insurance carriers anymore. Its an automatic. Coach, would you by chance have a copy of this training program you might be able to get a hold of? Thank you all for the posts. I appreciate it! Thank you for the kind words. I cant provide you with any documents but you can put this together without too much effort. A Parent Contract that they sign at a preseason parent meeting. This lays out everything from team rules, how to communicate with the Staff to diet and expectations required by all parties. The biggest problem with any newbie coach is they can never really appreciate all of the time involved. Same goes for the parents. This aint kiddie sokker anymore where you can show up and just do. Football requires a lot of practice time. This contract will help the new coach AND the parents realize the commitment involved. An Offense and a Defense that includes a detailed installation manual to include philosophy and play calling tips. Each package is age appropriate. If you are familiar with Cisars stuff, buy his package and give it to your new hire. Its a worthy investment. A practice plan layout that teaches the newbie how to best manage time to include drills specific to the systems provided. How to properly check and maintain equipment, organized game day, parent volunteers, money, coaching tools required, hiring assistants…. The biggie was the Coaches Liaison. This was an experienced coach that could drop by a practice session and help out for 30 minutes or so. Maybe 2-3 times during the preseason and once a month thereafter. This coach typically coached the oldest age groups and could slip away from his own practice at times to help out others without hurting his own team. This position was surprisingly easy to fill. A really good coach with experience is more than willing to help out the newbie. The Liaison would also help out with a coaches meetings after practice for the newbie Staff….Rule being….newbie buys the beer and pizza. That’s about it in a nutshell. I was a Liaison for one year. I had a blast helping others and admit after about mid September I was no longer really needed due to the prep work before preseason even started. That is why hiring a manager works. They already know how to prepare and do so before hand rather than after the season begins. That mistake is all too common. Too many jump right in and sink almost immediately. So…give them some tools that go from A-Z that teaches them to at least doggie paddle before they jump in. You can do that with handouts alone and some youtube links for a visual. Hope this helps.
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Post by mahonz on Apr 5, 2017 7:25:11 GMT -6
The best Org I have coached for had a very successful process for hiring.
One person did the hiring. Its tough to interview under a Spanish Inquisition type atmosphere. One on one gets it done. The person hiring is also not part of the Board. He is a coach.
They do not care about coaching experience. They only care about managerial experience at work. They had a nice training program in place for the novice. They wanted people that could manage people. If a candidate has experience then its a bonus but not required since great managers are also quick studies.
They have been doing it this way for about 15 years now and it has worked very well.
BTW Background checks are required by the Insurance carriers anymore. Its an automatic.
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Post by mahonz on Feb 20, 2017 2:22:15 GMT -6
Can you Show me what "good" flag football looks like? Because all I see is coaches who don't teach fundamentals and just draw "plays" in the huddle I have coached flag before and Im not sure what "good" flag is supposed to look like either
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Post by mahonz on Feb 17, 2017 10:23:25 GMT -6
Thanks for the Link. I have seen this with my own two eyes. Flag is not the answer if your number one concern is safety. When I coach tackle I never worry about safety outside of making sure everyone is fitted properly and playing with their heads up. When I coached flag all I did was worry, every day. I had ZERO control.
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Post by mahonz on Feb 9, 2017 18:04:45 GMT -6
Isn't that simply kicking the can down the road? What happens when 25 flag'rs show up to play Freshman ball? Who blocks? Sounds to me like youth weeds out the selfish players ( fathers ). Coach, If we had 25 kids showing up for freshmen ball, I wouldn't even be in this conversation. That would make roughly 50 for varsity and we never had those numbers even when times were great. My 9th grade class will have about 11 football players in it. But...maybe you're right and youth weeded out 14 kids. That said, I'd take'm...even some weeds eventually flower. Are you saying times are not so great?
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Post by mahonz on Feb 9, 2017 18:02:55 GMT -6
Talk about perfect timing. I just spoke with my good friend last night who was on his way home from a conference meeting last night that was initiated by the HC of the best team in the conference (and one of the best in the state) who proposed that they all begin to wean their communities off of youth football and into flag until 7th grade. Sounds like he cited all the reasons that people have mentioned on here as reasons they should look into and potentially draft proposals to move forward. Every coach at the meeting supported it. I'd like to reiterate here, that this conference is traditionally strong, and 3-4 of the programs have won state over the last 10-15 years.. so it's high quality football. The main reason this was brought up... they feel that they are losing kids early on in their careers because parents are worried about safety with 3rd graders tackling, and kids burning out on hitting before they get to high school. This was proposed as a potential answer. I just can't get over the fact that he called me last night, 5 minutes after I got done getting caught up on this thread. Sad to hear. I started coaching youth ball in 1983. Parents were worried about 3rd graders tackling back then too. Only difference being you didn't have mass media drilling you with truths, half truths and fake news 24/7.
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Post by mahonz on Feb 9, 2017 10:36:07 GMT -6
The great debate for sure. I see some youth Orgs go to extremes to vet out and do a better job hiring coaches. And I see some that just do not care. Nepotism is certainly a front and center issue. I just have to wonder if a young kid played flag for say 4 years and never tackle and then showed up to play HS tackle...that would certainly be a shock to his system. Still I do agree....its the Adults that ruin youth sports. Flag would have been the only organized football he'd ever played. You can bet that he's played a lot of tackle football in backyards. Sure but that's a different animal IMO. I will have kids join our tackle team that have played flag for a couple of seasons. Some jump right in, others do not. They have to get over their fear of contact first and foremost even if they had never played flag before. I would think that would be amplified at the HS levels compared to the youth levels. The speed of the game is certainly different. If there were no opportunity to play tackle pre HS then the HS Staffs would be dealing with this on a mass scale. For me, I dont coach the kids to prepare them for HS until their 7th grade season. By then attrition has hit and those that play are football geeks. We do not have MS sports here so its youth straight into HS. I would hope that I am do a service for the HS folks by sending them players that at least have a solid work ethic and a true love for the game. I also coach a Spring team as well. Its a shorten season and mostly a means to get better at playing this game since football is unique in that they cant practice their trade in the off season at a batting cage, for example. I catch a ton of grief for that but these kids are the true geeks and half of them are Linemen. They have no interest in anything but football and can hardly wait to play HS ball. Would your rather have those kids show up day one of Freshman ball or kids that have never played before? It seems to work. The last team I coached from 2nd -8th grade, 60% of those players started for their HS V teams. My youth Org feeds 5 HS Programs so there are about 100 positions available as my players scatter around after they are done with me. A handful are still playing College ball. My current team will be 8th graders this Fall. So it will be interesting to see how they do at the next level. And Im not the only youth coach that rolls this way. I know plenty that give maximum effort and why I will defend what we do.
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Post by mahonz on Feb 9, 2017 9:57:24 GMT -6
Sounds to me like youth weeds out the selfish players ( fathers ). Or creates them.... Good point. I have watched as a fan my grand-kids play most all of the sports and I will say this....football fans are by far the most insane
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Post by mahonz on Feb 8, 2017 16:38:20 GMT -6
Isn't that simply kicking the can down the road? What happens when 25 flag'rs show up to play Freshman ball? Who blocks? Sounds to me like youth weeds out the selfish players ( fathers ). Not going to get in to my thoughts on the whole deal, I think everyone has very strong opinions that aren't going to change. Arguably the most successful league in Ohio doesn't have youth football, they start in 7th grade have higher numbers than everyone and win an inordinate amount of games and state titles. While not the only factor (the league is an anomaly in a few other ways) it is a huge factor but when you tell that to other communities around them they have reasons why that would never work for them. However, in all of my coaching experiences some of the biggest headaches have been from the selfish dads that coached their kids or had a buddy coach their kids and inflated that youth league all star mentality so I don't really get what's being weeded out. Part of changing the mindset here is getting people to stop referring to how great their kid was in youth league ball and what bs all star team they were on etc. That has created significant issues and a whole new learning curve for those kids and dads as the kids had to learn how to be coached and had to learn they are not infallible. I could only imagine the problems that causes older level coaches in sports like soccer baseball volleyball and basketball that have year round youth teams. not exactly what you are getting at but it drives me up a wall...no different than the kid that was "really smart" in 5th grade but is barely passing in HS bc his ego has been inflated excuses have been made and he thinks he's the exception to work and being taught. The great debate for sure. I see some youth Orgs go to extremes to vet out and do a better job hiring coaches. And I see some that just do not care. Nepotism is certainly a front and center issue. I just have to wonder if a young kid played flag for say 4 years and never tackle and then showed up to play HS tackle...that would certainly be a shock to his system. Still I do agree....its the Adults that ruin youth sports.
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Post by mahonz on Feb 8, 2017 12:14:57 GMT -6
jrk5150 . My argument the whole time has really been about improper fitting equipment being a major issue of concern. "If either, neither, all or any of those players are wearing ill-fitting equipment they should be removed from the field and their coaches and organization president removed from the league until further notice. There's no excuse for that. It doesn't take that long to learn how to properly size & fit players' equipment. " What if they don't have the money to properly equip everyone? So now you run into 2 problems, one being that you can make people pay their own way and that takes kids away from the sport, or you can have a league that provides but probably doesn't have the money to make sure everything is properly fitted. In high school, there are state leagues that have rules and regulations and I have worked at one of the poorest schools in the state but we could fit everyone. You're comparing apples to oranges in my opinion. Also, my guess is that so many people play soccer because it's cheap. So is flag football Every piece of equipment that I am aware of comes in youth and adult sizes. Money is always an issue for sure. At the youngest levels football is expensive comparatively if you purchase your own equipment. Once all youth sports hit a certain monument things change dramatically. Many baseball teams turn into Tournament Clubs. Registration fees are $1200. Same deal for soccer and basketball. LAX is starting to go in this direction as well. You can still play Rec level but they still enter some weekend tournaments maybe once or twice a month where the entry fee is 3-400 bucks per team. That does not exist in youth football because you cant play 2-4 games over a weekend. So what happens is while football is indeed expensive at the youngest youth levels it quickly becomes a great value at the older youth levels because you never get hit with horrific registration or in season fees. I have a friend who is coaching baseball. This year they are raising $25K so the team can go to Cooperstown this Summer. There are 14 players on the team. They are 7th graders. Flag is still a good value no matter what level because they have not been sucked into the Tournament format....yet.
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Post by mahonz on Feb 8, 2017 12:01:34 GMT -6
He isn't. The league hear does that Isn't that simply kicking the can down the road? What happens when 25 flag'rs show up to play Freshman ball? Who blocks? Sounds to me like youth weeds out the selfish players ( fathers ).
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Post by mahonz on Feb 7, 2017 10:38:07 GMT -6
I can't get my two year old to pee in the right place all the time let alone run the right direction. when my 6 year old plays madden half the time he goes backwards. I would never pay money for him to play organized football. LOL !
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Post by mahonz on Feb 7, 2017 10:21:49 GMT -6
Do away with football below the Freshman HS level and you just killed off the Sport. Odd none of you can see this. Your participation numbers would dwindle to the point you'd eventually have to close up shop. And yes I've heard the argument ad nauseum that this move would have no adverse effect on your own Program. Maybe but eventually you will have no one left to play against. If you think for one minute that a kid that has never played football pre HS but has played all the others Sports is just going to show up out of the blue his 9th grade year...you are a fool. Youth Sports, all of them are fast becoming a specialization thing. Like it or not....agree to disagree all you want....I live it every year. Its a real thing. May as well do everything possible to keep football in the conversation regardless of what you may think otherwise. Or...bone up on your baseball skills so you can coach Fall Baseball or even LAX when it takes the place of football. That is already happening in spades. Im a really good youth coach only because I have already made all the mistakes and now know what not to do anymore. Currently I have conversations with maybe half my team every off season about returning to play another season. Why? Has nothing to do with safety and I mean absolutely ZERO. Has to do with the fact that football is a grind too them. Three practice sessions a week and then play one game. Each Regular Season is only 8 games. This compared to baseball or LAX where they practice once or twice per week and then play 3 or 4 games a week with a 25+ Regualr Season Schedule. They experience this in the Spring for the first time and are hooked. Then find out they can do it all over again in the Fall. Football has simply become....too much work for some and specialization is very real. Why couldn't you run flag youth program like they run Lax and baseball? We do but it does not "stick" past the 3rd / 4th grade levels. Im not sure why. Maybe its because the tackle Program runs it so kids become interested in tackle after a few years. I have coached quite a bit of flag to include Adult levels and can tell you it is far more dangerous when it comes to head injuries than tackle will ever be. So flag as a safety option does not fly with me. Flag can be a very aggressive game....with no protective gear. This kid is probably ready for tackle
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