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Post by nicku on Sept 29, 2018 12:13:40 GMT -6
As right as you may be, i disagree. we dont have a participation rule, thats pop warner/aau/usa football. best kids play. rules for parents, we dont discuss playing time. you want to know why he didnt play, come to practice and watch him compete with the person in front of him. end of talk. as far as varsity kids being invested, yes they should play, in blowouts, homecoming games and senior night(if a senior) otherwise, win your battle with the #1 in your spot. im not going to pull a starter just to give little billy some burn because he came to 100% of the summer workouts. by the same token, i will yank a player for screwing up, starter or not. when you are evaulated on wins and losses, not for getting kids in games or sending kids to college, better score 50, give up 0 and win every game you can. not saying its right, but its reality in certain places. I vehemently disagree. The OP said this was a freshman "B" game. The purpose of having freshman "B" games is so everyone gets to play! If you are fortunate enough to coach at a school that has enough kids tio even have a freshman "B" team, it is incumbent upon you to use that game to get ALL of your freshman players quality snaps. Playing to win? In a freshman "B" game? Are you serious??? Honestly, I agree with you for the most part. He had gotten to play in at least one series of our first 2 games, and we kinda just let him slip through the cracks in Thursday's game for whatever reason. And I think him not playing at all kinda set him and the mom off.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 29, 2018 12:20:05 GMT -6
I'll re-phrase. If it was anything below the varsity level, I disagree with not playing all kids.
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Post by newhope on Oct 1, 2018 5:32:10 GMT -6
Role on the team, yes. Playing time, no. Isn't their playing time part of their role? Indirectly. Those are 2 different discussions.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 1, 2018 5:43:36 GMT -6
Isn't their playing time part of their role? Indirectly. Those are 2 different discussions. Separate discussions maybe; but how could their playing time not be directly related to their role on the team?
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Post by newhope on Oct 1, 2018 8:03:33 GMT -6
The two being related and the discussion I have with parents are not the same. I can relate his ability to his playing time as well---I'll talk about how he can improve himself but not about his playing time.
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Post by newhope on Oct 1, 2018 8:10:35 GMT -6
Indirectly. Those are 2 different discussions. Separate discussions maybe; but how could their playing time not be directly related to their role on the team? The two being related and the discussion I have with parents are not the same. I can relate his ability to his playing time as well---I'll talk about how he can improve himself but not about his playing time. All sorts of things relate to playing time. I'm not going to discuss playing time. I'm not going to discuss other people's kids. I will discuss things that relate to playing time. It's a completely different discussion. I tell a parent how his kid can get better. Now that's a positive discussion and he can leave the meeting without being angry or without having wasted his time and mine.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 1, 2018 9:40:47 GMT -6
1. We will only discuss playing time with a parent AFTER the kid has talked to the coaching staff about it. And, we only have one of those every few years as parents gets a strong dose of reality and word of mouth spreads quickly. Especially when the majority of the coaching staff is in the meeting and not just the HC.
2. We find ways to get all of the kids that have practiced hard into the lower level games. They might only play for a series but we get them in there. It's awful difficult to keep a younger kid enthusiastic about football when he's been busting his hump at practice every day but not seeing any playing time. And, you don't want to lose that kid because you don't know where he'll be down the road. Right now, we have two kids that honestly have no place on the football field for a variety of reasons. BUT, they show up every day and work hard so we make sure that they get a few turns on JV. We let them get their series early on in the game and do a good job of hiding them.
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Post by newhope on Oct 1, 2018 10:04:57 GMT -6
Upset that her son doesn't play much. He is a sweet kid that is...not all there. All of our games have been close, too. So she asks, "why did he not play at all tonight? It's not fair!" Well, for one thing, he is the worst player on the entire freshman B team, and we were only up 6 until a pick 6 at the end. So it was close, we wanted to finish it off. Second, he left his helmet in his locker at school and it was an away game. So that's another reason. Not sure, but sounds like maybe she came in right after the game? If so, Rule #2: No parent discussions immediately after a game. Both coaches and parents need time to let the adrenaline settle.
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Post by Sparkey on Oct 1, 2018 14:15:07 GMT -6
At the varsity level, playing time should be based on meritocracy until the game is decided.
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Post by planck on Oct 1, 2018 14:17:37 GMT -6
At the varsity level, playing time should be based on meritocracy until the game is decided. Not to get on a tangent, but I'm certain that word doesn't mean what you intend here. Look up the British origins of the term.
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Post by Sparkey on Oct 1, 2018 16:10:05 GMT -6
At the varsity level, playing time should be based on meritocracy until the game is decided. Not to get on a tangent, but I'm certain that word doesn't mean what you intend here. Look up the British origins of the term. That word came from coach Jim Harbaugh! You don't know he is a genius? Come coach, get with it! It means selection based on ability.
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Post by planck on Oct 2, 2018 9:15:27 GMT -6
Jim Harbaugh didn't invent that, I hope you're joking.
Yeah, Americans tend to misuse the word and lose the irony of its origins. It was a term coined to mock the British system of rule of Aristocracy because only those with "merit" (e.g. the right upbringing) could rule.
Americans use it to mean something completely different (although ironically it often winds up meaning "those who were born with the means to accomplish a lot", which is almost the same as the British usage).
Anyway...
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Post by mnike23 on Oct 2, 2018 10:44:53 GMT -6
As right as you may be, i disagree. we dont have a participation rule, thats pop warner/aau/usa football. best kids play. rules for parents, we dont discuss playing time. you want to know why he didnt play, come to practice and watch him compete with the person in front of him. end of talk. as far as varsity kids being invested, yes they should play, in blowouts, homecoming games and senior night(if a senior) otherwise, win your battle with the #1 in your spot. im not going to pull a starter just to give little billy some burn because he came to 100% of the summer workouts. by the same token, i will yank a player for screwing up, starter or not. when you are evaulated on wins and losses, not for getting kids in games or sending kids to college, better score 50, give up 0 and win every game you can. not saying its right, but its reality in certain places. I vehemently disagree. The OP said this was a freshman "B" game. The purpose of having freshman "B" games is so everyone gets to play! If you are fortunate enough to coach at a school that has enough kids tio even have a freshman "B" team, it is incumbent upon you to use that game to get ALL of your freshman players quality snaps. Playing to win? In a freshman "B" game? Are you serious??? pretty clear if you read what I said 19delta I am not talking about a freshmen B game. freshmen b game, may as well be pop warner, aau, usa football. put em all in. Im talking about a varsity contest, if you cant read thru the lines there,,,,,,
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Post by Defcord on Oct 2, 2018 10:48:14 GMT -6
Upset that her son doesn't play much. He is a sweet kid that is...not all there. All of our games have been close, too. So she asks, "why did he not play at all tonight? It's not fair!" Well, for one thing, he is the worst player on the entire freshman B team, and we were only up 6 until a pick 6 at the end. So it was close, we wanted to finish it off. Second, he left his helmet in his locker at school and it was an away game. So that's another reason. Not sure, but sounds like maybe she came in right after the game? If so, Rule #2: No parent discussions immediately after a game. Both coaches and parents need time to let the adrenaline settle. This I fully agree with!
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Post by 19delta on Oct 2, 2018 16:32:16 GMT -6
I vehemently disagree. The OP said this was a freshman "B" game. The purpose of having freshman "B" games is so everyone gets to play! If you are fortunate enough to coach at a school that has enough kids tio even have a freshman "B" team, it is incumbent upon you to use that game to get ALL of your freshman players quality snaps. Playing to win? In a freshman "B" game? Are you serious??? pretty clear if you read what I said 19delta I am not talking about a freshmen B game. freshmen b game, may as well be pop warner, aau, usa football. put em all in. Im talking about a varsity contest, if you cant read thru the lines there,,,,,, The original post was about playing time in a freshman B game. So why did you post about varsity playing time? What does that have to do with the OP's topic?
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Post by mnike23 on Oct 4, 2018 11:18:11 GMT -6
pretty clear if you read what I said 19delta I am not talking about a freshmen B game. freshmen b game, may as well be pop warner, aau, usa football. put em all in. Im talking about a varsity contest, if you cant read thru the lines there,,,,,, The original post was about playing time in a freshman B game. So why did you post about varsity playing time? What does that have to do with the OP's topic? read the whole thread, dont pick and choose what your reading and will see why it was said
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Post by 19delta on Oct 4, 2018 18:03:46 GMT -6
The original post was about playing time in a freshman B game. So why did you post about varsity playing time? What does that have to do with the OP's topic? read the whole thread, dont pick and choose what your reading and will see why it was said You go back and read the thread. Your post was early in the thread. Don't try to hide behind the posts that came AFTER your post...a post that, for some reason known only to you, talked about how you allocate varsity playing time in a thread that was started about a freshman B game.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 7, 2018 19:08:18 GMT -6
Confession- didn't read the full thread I have 8 kids including a senior that I have to physically make practice. Yes they show up everyday Yes they have their gear Yes the are in academic good standing Yes the are nice kids yes they are good team mates
No they will not take reps.. I have grabbed a kid by the arm, walked him into the huddle, called the play, told him what he is to do and when they broke the huddle he grabbed another kid and told him the play and went to the sideline again. I don't coach his offensive position but we do group work with them..he will get out of a line and go snap to the QB for the entire drill or until we get after him(we are a pistol team).
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Post by silkyice on Oct 8, 2018 8:14:35 GMT -6
Confession- didn't read the full thread I have 8 kids including a senior that I have to physically make practice. Yes they show up everyday Yes they have their gear Yes the are in academic good standing Yes the are nice kids yes they are good team mates No they will not take reps.. I have grabbed a kid by the arm, walked him into the huddle, called the play, told him what he is to do and when they broke the huddle he grabbed another kid and told him the play and went to the sideline again. I don't coach his offensive position but we do group work with them..he will get out of a line and go snap to the QB for the entire drill or until we get after him(we are a pistol team). Why do you even worry about that kid? Why is he still on the team? Shouldn't he have to do some sort running, bear crawl, etc. for not obeying the coach?
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 8, 2018 8:57:40 GMT -6
Confession- didn't read the full thread I have 8 kids including a senior that I have to physically make practice. Yes they show up everyday Yes they have their gear Yes the are in academic good standing Yes the are nice kids yes they are good team mates No they will not take reps.. I have grabbed a kid by the arm, walked him into the huddle, called the play, told him what he is to do and when they broke the huddle he grabbed another kid and told him the play and went to the sideline again. I don't coach his offensive position but we do group work with them..he will get out of a line and go snap to the QB for the entire drill or until we get after him(we are a pistol team). Why do you even worry about that kid? Why is he still on the team? Shouldn't he have to do some sort running, bear crawl, etc. for not obeying the coach? All of these kids have effort runs at the end of practices...this kid doesn't seem to mind. When asked he has said he would rather run than have to play in a game. I worry because I think every kid should get playing time in sub-varsity games. I do have the interaction I described on video for the parents when that time comes too. It is hard to promote the program saying that every kid will get to play if it doesn't happen.
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Post by mnike23 on Oct 8, 2018 11:10:21 GMT -6
I am not saying it's the right way to do things but I personally think every kid that is in good standing should play every game at the lower levels. And at varsity the kids that have been invested in the program should be played as often as possible. If our sport is struggling with numbers, then we need to allow kids to experience the best part of it...playing. I know their is value in competition and winning but on the freshmen B team surely there is a spot this could have gotten in without ruining the outcome for everything. If he was a turd, I would have a different opinion but good kids deserve to play. Plus you never know what will happen to a motivated kids in over the course of a 4 year high school career. As right as you may be, i disagree. we dont have a participation rule, thats pop warner/aau/usa football. best kids play. rules for parents, we dont discuss playing time. you want to know why he didnt play, come to practice and watch him compete with the person in front of him. end of talk. as far as varsity kids being invested, yes they should play, in blowouts, homecoming games and senior night(if a senior) otherwise, win your battle with the #1 in your spot. im not going to pull a starter just to give little billy some burn because he came to 100% of the summer workouts. by the same token, i will yank a player for screwing up, starter or not. when you are evaulated on wins and losses, not for getting kids in games or sending kids to college, better score 50, give up 0 and win every game you can. not saying its right, but its reality in certain places. hmmmm,,,, why did I comment about varsity,, 19deltanow you tell me you read the whole thread and I will call you a GD liar.....
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Post by mnike23 on Oct 8, 2018 11:11:55 GMT -6
read the whole thread, dont pick and choose what your reading and will see why it was said You go back and read the thread. Your post was early in the thread. Don't try to hide behind the posts that came AFTER your post...a post that, for some reason known only to you, talked about how you allocate varsity playing time in a thread that was started about a freshman B game. and further more, I aint hiding behind anything. you DID NOT READ THE THREAD, but want to be a keyboard jockey smart A. read it and tell me im wrong for saying what I said.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Oct 9, 2018 9:16:48 GMT -6
That escalated quickly.
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Post by mnike23 on Oct 9, 2018 10:57:47 GMT -6
he should just delete his comments, cant call someone out like that when your dead A-- wrong. i tried to be polite and say, hey read what was said first, but nope, got all slick about it. call a spade a spade, it is what it is, wasnt hijacking a post or any of that, but dude is wrong.
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Post by nicku on Oct 9, 2018 14:34:08 GMT -6
So minor update on this situation. Made all of us, especially the kid, pretty happy.
We played a cross-town rival a week ago. They're really down, and only have one freshman team. So we combined teams, suited everyone out. Told the B teamers that there was a really good chance they wouldn't play, but to be ready just in case.
Well, we get up early and get up BIG. I think it was 40-6 at the half. This with with our A-team 2nd string in for the entire 2nd quarter. We know its gonna get ugly, so varsity HC says to go full-scale B team in the 2nd half. Offense, defense, ST. The kid gets in at the start of the 4th quarter and our kids go nuts. They love the kid and were pumped for him to get in. He's at safety. Other teams runs stretch away from his side of the field. One of their kid just non-chalantly blocks him, and she lowers his shoulder and DESTROYS the kid all of 1 foot back. He looks to our sideline and does some Ray Lewis/Michael Jackson combo leg-wiggle dance and we all go nuts. Maybe the best moment of the year so far.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 9, 2018 18:11:06 GMT -6
So minor update on this situation. Made all of us, especially the kid, pretty happy. We played a cross-town rival a week ago. They're really down, and only have one freshman team. So we combined teams, suited everyone out. Told the B teamers that there was a really good chance they wouldn't play, but to be ready just in case. Well, we get up early and get up BIG. I think it was 40-6 at the half. This with with our A-team 2nd string in for the entire 2nd quarter. We know its gonna get ugly, so varsity HC says to go full-scale B team in the 2nd half. Offense, defense, ST. The kid gets in at the start of the 4th quarter and our kids go nuts. They love the kid and were pumped for him to get in. He's at safety. Other teams runs stretch away from his side of the field. One of their kid just non-chalantly blocks him, and she lowers his shoulder and DESTROYS the kid all of 1 foot back. He looks to our sideline and does some Ray Lewis/Michael Jackson combo leg-wiggle dance and we all go nuts. Maybe the best moment of the year so far. Love stuff like this!!
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klaby
Junior Member
Posts: 389
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Post by klaby on Oct 10, 2018 12:18:58 GMT -6
If you cant get a kid into a frosh B game then your coaching the wrong level. Frosh games, and B games at that are to get kids on the field, keep them in the program. I had a kid who was 5'7" 167 as a frosh. He is now as a College sophomore 6'6" 325 a man's man. Starting for one of the top D3 programs in the country. kids grow, develop and change at different rates. If this kid didn't have fun and play a little as a frosh, I wouldn't want to have to explain to the Varsity HC why the 6'7" 295 Senior isn't playing anymore. Lower levels are for development, no reason to win the frosh B state title...Frosh B!...now as for forgetting his helmet...thats what hills are for on monday....
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 19, 2018 13:36:52 GMT -6
I wish I could say my scenario ended as happily.
Kid ended up playing 8 plays all year..I would say we forced him to play 8.
Lengthy parent email regarding playing time (JV games), I was at all of the home JV games. I told JV coaches to play all of the kids, I watched as coaches searched out kids, and I watched as kids drifted away from the coaches yelling for players. I witnessed daily occurrences of JV coaches asking for players to play on special teams, asking for WR specifically to get in and take reps. We changed practice structure so a student manager would watch the clock so I could work with the "hiders" specifically, mostly route running and 1 on 1 drills but they practiced and I took myself out of the D-team session (Thank God for good volunteers who took over running our scout offense). The thinking was that if they were more confident they would be more willing to participate in team drills and then games.
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Post by throwahitch on Oct 24, 2018 11:50:47 GMT -6
Rule 1: We never discuss playing time with parents. Explain this to parents at the first parent meeting and every subsequent parent meeting. Make sure admin knows this is your rule. It will save you a lot of time and problems. We ask parents for their kid, their time, their money and their support. Why can't they ask about playing time? Bob Ladouceur says in his book "if a parent wants to watch every clip of film with me on a Saturday then they can discuss playing time" He also states that he even avoids questions like "Hows Johnny doing??"
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Post by Defcord on Oct 24, 2018 12:05:16 GMT -6
We ask parents for their kid, their time, their money and their support. Why can't they ask about playing time? Bob Ladouceur says in his book "if a parent wants to watch every clip of film with me on a Saturday then they can discuss playing time" He also states that he even avoids questions like "Hows Johnny doing??" I get the point he is making, but instead of potentially spending hours with a parent on Saturday morning in which neither of us want to be there, I would rather just shoot them straight and honest and live with the result of the conversation. What if the parent starts avoiding giving rides, or buying from crappy fundraisers, or generally supporting the program. I just think parents deserve a conversation. I don't think you have to cater to them and I don't think you have to do it on their terms, but if I were the header I would be fine with addressing the issue and moving on.
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