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Post by coachscdub on Jul 11, 2021 1:54:47 GMT -6
So i worked at a school as a frosh coach two years ago, going into that year the Frosh HC told me how good the team the year before was. The RB ran for 2000 yards and over 40TDs, and the main WR had over 10 receiving TDs.
Over the summer the varsity staff, in particular the OC managed to annoy the RB so much so that he transferred out. Apparently it was something along the line of they wanted him to play Slot WR and he wanted to stay at RB.
The WR was a stud and played on both sides of the ball as a sophomore. The team did great, won 10 games, a playoff game, and lost in the second round. Well some time either toward the end of the season or early off season, the OC and HC managed to annoy the WR, and he then transferred out as well. Well in looking up a different kid today on state rankings i noticed that the WR is the 15th ranked player in the state and has accepted an offer to a Power 5 school.
The RB kid is no slouch either, he hasnt received incredible recruiting coverage, but he plays on a great team and looks to be a 3 star or so ranked player.
Anyways i bring all this up to just say wow, how incredible that the OC and HC managed to sour two relationships with two of the best kids to walk through the halls in quite a while.
Yes i realize their is more to this than what i covered, and yes i realize that their are intricacies and conversations that i am not privy too, but just still it's a big wow moment for me to see that talent essentially be let go of.
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Post by dubber on Jul 11, 2021 13:43:34 GMT -6
There is more to this…..overly simplistic to lay sole responsibility at these guys feet
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Post by newt21 on Jul 11, 2021 14:19:06 GMT -6
I guarantee there’s more to it, we had a kid at our school at RB with talent out the wazoo. Started as a sophomore, produced very well; however was consistently late to practice (girl crazy). Skipped all off season workouts before covid (only plays football).
Skipped all workouts leading up to our covid shortened season, only came to practice once or twice a week. Lost PT and carries because of it, but behavior didn’t change.
Skipped all off season workouts and spring ball, then just transferred to a different school. We had been contacted by a number of D1 schools about him, including at least one power 5. He left because we were holding him accountable for his actions and having standards he was expected to meet.
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Post by coachscdub on Jul 11, 2021 14:32:45 GMT -6
There is more to this…..overly simplistic to lay sole responsibility at these guys feet Thats why i mentioned that i was not aware of ALL information. To be honest the case with the WR is the one that has the most amount of possible outcomes and intricacies as he was in the program longer, and had much more time to have conversations and actions that could have turned him off/away from the program. But the situation with the RB kid was from it entirely being him and the OC not agreeing about his position. The Frosh HC informed of this, the Varsity OC informed me of this, the kids friends still on our team informed me of this. |
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 11, 2021 14:38:38 GMT -6
There are teams all over the country where if they let every kid pick what position they wanted to play, they would be unable to field a team. While I don't know the situation, your language choices "managed to annoy" (twice) makes me think you don' have much regard for the coaches and you see this as their failure? To be convinced of that, I'd need a lot more info.
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Post by coachscdub on Jul 11, 2021 17:15:13 GMT -6
There are teams all over the country where if they let every kid pick what position they wanted to play, they would be unable to field a team. While I don't know the situation, your language choices "managed to annoy" (twice) makes me think you don' have much regard for the coaches and you see this as their failure? To be convinced of that, I'd need a lot more info. I understand that, and i quite honestly have a tremendous amount of respect for the HC and the OC. I realize letting kids pick their position would lead to a team with 20 WRs and 8 QBs and in turn create chaos. I come from a school where talent was poached by the local catholic school, any kid worth a damn was getting a call and a scholarship offer to go play for them. Because of this i suppose i have a different POV in regard to trying to 'keep' kids at our school by any means (within the rules) necessary. So when i see kids, especially kids with huge talent leaving i question it. As to the 'manage to annoy' line it was quite simply the most appropriate term i could think of in writing it out. The HC was very helpful to me in dealing with the frosh parents who thought their kid was a future NFL MVP, i respect him alot, he's a no non-sense guy and has often times (from what i've heard) kicked kids off the team for detrimental conduct. I realize one could easily say that having a diva or two on the team would be detrimental to the team, and that is perhaps why things played out the way that they did. |
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Post by NC1974 on Jul 11, 2021 17:18:58 GMT -6
There are teams all over the country where if they let every kid pick what position they wanted to play, they would be unable to field a team. While I don't know the situation, your language choices "managed to annoy" (twice) makes me think you don' have much regard for the coaches and you see this as their failure? To be convinced of that, I'd need a lot more info. I understand that, and i quite honestly have a tremendous amount of respect for the HC and the OC. I realize letting kids pick their position would lead to a team with 20 WRs and 8 QBs and in turn create chaos. I come from a school where talent was poached by the local catholic school, any kid worth a damn was getting a call and a scholarship offer to go play for them. Because of this i suppose i have a different POV in regard to trying to 'keep' kids at our school by any means (within the rules) necessary. So when i see kids, especially kids with huge talent leaving i question it. As to the 'manage to annoy' line it was quite simply the most appropriate term i could think of in writing it out. The HC was very helpful to me in dealing with the frosh parents who thought their kid was a future NFL MVP, i respect him alot, he's a no non-sense guy and has often times (from what i've heard) kicked kids off the team for detrimental conduct. I realize one could easily say that having a diva or two on the team would be detrimental to the team, and that is perhaps why things played out the way that they did. I can relate to the private school thing. Awhile back we lost two of our best players to a private school. We did some soul searching but we concluded that we treated the kids fairly, but at the end the day the kids did what they thought was best for them. Definitely frustrating. |
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Just Wow
Jul 11, 2021 19:30:12 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by 19delta on Jul 11, 2021 19:30:12 GMT -6
coachscdubCan you provide some specifics regarding "managed to annoy"? What actions or words from these two coaches caused the kids to change schools? In your opinion, given what you know about the situation, what could those coaches have done better that would have resulted in those kids staying? Never a good look when talented kids leave the program, no doubt!
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Post by coachscdub on Jul 11, 2021 21:02:27 GMT -6
coachscdub Can you provide some specifics regarding "managed to annoy"? What actions or words from these two coaches caused the kids to change schools? In your opinion, given what you know about the situation, what could those coaches have done better that would have resulted in those kids staying? Never a good look when talented kids leave the program, no doubt! So in hindsight i shouldve taken more time to craft this post, but anyways. The first one, the RB example, was pretty cut and dry, the kid was a monster at his position as a RB, and wanted to stay there, the OC then informed him that he didnt want him to play RB because they had a senior at RB, they wanted him to play Slot Receiver, the kid didnt want to do that, either because he knew he wasnt a great receiver, or because he wanted to keep doing what he was doing. The WR kid is the more interesting one, he's the ranked prospect, and he was at the school longer. From what i observed, as well as some info i have heard, the kid either... - Didnt like playing both WR and Safety (he wanted to do one of them full time, i believe WR) or - Didnt like not starting as a WR (because he played defense also i think they didnt start him at WR because they wanted to focus him at Safety) I think it is always a tough situation for a coach when a kid is good (good beyond the scope of the rest of the team) and they know it. The kid may start to develop an attitude and or bad habits. In the case of the RB, i personally wouldve informed him of my desire to get him on the field as WR from time to time while the senior was on the field, but keep him as the second RB. In doing that i would say "hey i want both of you on the field, i think you can help us at slot while also helping us as a RB, more than the senior can help us as a WR, if you can learn this position i can play you more, if not, then you're either gonna get less carries as a backup RB, or you're really gonna have to fight to become the starter". something kind of like that. As for the WR i think because he was there as a sophmore it wouldve been easier going into his junior year. If he wanted to play Safety full time, there was another going to be junior who could take the WR job. If he wanted to be a full time WR, that same other kid was also a really good Safety. It wouldve been easier to 'appease' him in regards to the position. No perfect scenario, i understand if you work to hard to appease one or two kids, you risk the rest of the team, their needs to be boundaries i get that, but like you said just seeing that talent leave caught my eye. |
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Post by tog on Jul 11, 2021 21:38:06 GMT -6
coachscdub Can you provide some specifics regarding "managed to annoy"? What actions or words from these two coaches caused the kids to change schools? In your opinion, given what you know about the situation, what could those coaches have done better that would have resulted in those kids staying? Never a good look when talented kids leave the program, no doubt! So in hindsight i shouldve taken more time to craft this post, but anyways. The first one, the RB example, was pretty cut and dry, the kid was a monster at his position as a RB, and wanted to stay there, the OC then informed him that he didnt want him to play RB because they had a senior at RB, they wanted him to play Slot Receiver, the kid didnt want to do that, either because he knew he wasnt a great receiver, or because he wanted to keep doing what he was doing. The WR kid is the more interesting one, he's the ranked prospect, and he was at the school longer. From what i observed, as well as some info i have heard, the kid either... - Didnt like playing both WR and Safety (he wanted to do one of them full time, i believe WR) or - Didnt like not starting as a WR (because he played defense also i think they didnt start him at WR because they wanted to focus him at Safety) I think it is always a tough situation for a coach when a kid is good (good beyond the scope of the rest of the team) and they know it. The kid may start to develop an attitude and or bad habits. In the case of the RB, i personally wouldve informed him of my desire to get him on the field as WR from time to time while the senior was on the field, but keep him as the second RB. In doing that i would say "hey i want both of you on the field, i think you can help us at slot while also helping us as a RB, more than the senior can help us as a WR, if you can learn this position i can play you more, if not, then you're either gonna get less carries as a backup RB, or you're really gonna have to fight to become the starter". something kind of like that. As for the WR i think because he was there as a sophmore it wouldve been easier going into his junior year. If he wanted to play Safety full time, there was another going to be junior who could take the WR job. If he wanted to be a full time WR, that same other kid was also a really good Safety. It wouldve been easier to 'appease' him in regards to the position. No perfect scenario, i understand if you work to hard to appease one or two kids, you risk the rest of the team, their needs to be boundaries i get that, but like you said just seeing that talent leave caught my eye. it just sounds like you are thinking wayyyy too much about what the kids want, and what their parent's want as opposed to what is best for the team it really sounds like a reassessment is needed on your part just sayin |
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Post by coachscdub on Jul 11, 2021 22:02:55 GMT -6
So in hindsight i shouldve taken more time to craft this post, but anyways. The first one, the RB example, was pretty cut and dry, the kid was a monster at his position as a RB, and wanted to stay there, the OC then informed him that he didnt want him to play RB because they had a senior at RB, they wanted him to play Slot Receiver, the kid didnt want to do that, either because he knew he wasnt a great receiver, or because he wanted to keep doing what he was doing. The WR kid is the more interesting one, he's the ranked prospect, and he was at the school longer. From what i observed, as well as some info i have heard, the kid either... - Didnt like playing both WR and Safety (he wanted to do one of them full time, i believe WR) or - Didnt like not starting as a WR (because he played defense also i think they didnt start him at WR because they wanted to focus him at Safety) I think it is always a tough situation for a coach when a kid is good (good beyond the scope of the rest of the team) and they know it. The kid may start to develop an attitude and or bad habits. In the case of the RB, i personally wouldve informed him of my desire to get him on the field as WR from time to time while the senior was on the field, but keep him as the second RB. In doing that i would say "hey i want both of you on the field, i think you can help us at slot while also helping us as a RB, more than the senior can help us as a WR, if you can learn this position i can play you more, if not, then you're either gonna get less carries as a backup RB, or you're really gonna have to fight to become the starter". something kind of like that. As for the WR i think because he was there as a sophmore it wouldve been easier going into his junior year. If he wanted to play Safety full time, there was another going to be junior who could take the WR job. If he wanted to be a full time WR, that same other kid was also a really good Safety. It wouldve been easier to 'appease' him in regards to the position. No perfect scenario, i understand if you work to hard to appease one or two kids, you risk the rest of the team, their needs to be boundaries i get that, but like you said just seeing that talent leave caught my eye. it just sounds like you are thinking wayyyy too much about what the kids want, and what their parent's want as opposed to what is best for the team it really sounds like a reassessment is needed on your part just sayin Yea i get that, as i mentioned i really shouldve taken time to write this better, i kind of broke a personal rule when i posted it. Essentially the entire purpose of this post was 'wow two really good kids in the same class, and they both transferred out' that was literally the wow for me. My choice of rhetoric conveys another aspect that wasnt supposed to be the focus of the post. Also, i would agree that currently i try to appease players a bit too much, again coming where i come from where kids just were not showing out and our roster was always small, i kind of fell into a groove of giving the kids more leeway in regards to this stuff, i know i did this alot when we had any type of 'good' player. |
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Post by tog on Jul 11, 2021 22:07:04 GMT -6
it just sounds like you are thinking wayyyy too much about what the kids want, and what their parent's want as opposed to what is best for the team it really sounds like a reassessment is needed on your part just sayin Yea i get that, as i mentioned i really shouldve taken time to write this better, i kind of broke a personal rule when i posted it. Essentially the entire purpose of this post was 'wow two really good kids in the same class, and they both transferred out' that was literally the wow for me. My choice of rhetoric conveys another aspect that wasnt supposed to be the focus of the post. Also, i would agree that currently i try to appease players a bit too much, again coming where i come from where kids just were not showing out and our roster was always small, i kind of fell into a groove of giving the kids more leeway in regards to this stuff, i know i did this alot when we had any type of 'good' player. you can't worry about kids "transferring out" they will do so regardless doesn't matter about your "culture" or whatever, it matters if momma and poppa think they can get a scholahhhhship someplace else stupid parents will continue to be stupid parents... will never end |
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Post by blb on Jul 12, 2021 5:44:23 GMT -6
You can win with kids like that, but you can lose with them too.
You must be willing to lose in order to have discipline, and if you don't have it you will most assuredly lose.
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Post by Coach.A on Jul 12, 2021 11:28:14 GMT -6
Making exceptions for star players is a culture killer. It may provide short term gain, but it will set you back in the long haul.
To be an elite program, I think you need your best players to be among your hardest workers.
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Post by tog on Jul 12, 2021 11:32:04 GMT -6
You can win with kids like that, but you can lose with them too. You must be willing to lose in order to have discipline, and if you don't have it you will most assuredly lose. and be miserable because of who you are working with |
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Post by pitt1980 on Jul 13, 2021 7:00:22 GMT -6
So i worked at a school as a frosh coach two years ago, going into that year the Frosh HC told me how good the team the year before was. The RB ran for 2000 yards and over 40TDs, and the main WR had over 10 receiving TDs. Over the summer the varsity staff, in particular the OC managed to annoy the RB so much so that he transferred out. Apparently it was something along the line of they wanted him to play Slot WR and he wanted to stay at RB. The WR was a stud and played on both sides of the ball as a sophomore. The team did great, won 10 games, a playoff game, and lost in the second round. Well some time either toward the end of the season or early off season, the OC and HC managed to annoy the WR, and he then transferred out as well. Well in looking up a different kid today on state rankings i noticed that the WR is the 15th ranked player in the state and has accepted an offer to a Power 5 school. The RB kid is no slouch either, he hasnt received incredible recruiting coverage, but he plays on a great team and looks to be a 3 star or so ranked player. Anyways i bring all this up to just say wow, how incredible that the OC and HC managed to sour two relationships with two of the best kids to walk through the halls in quite a while. Yes i realize their is more to this than what i covered, and yes i realize that their are intricacies and conversations that i am not privy too, but just still it's a big wow moment for me to see that talent essentially be let go of. Just to clarify, what level were the stats referenced put up at? |
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Post by coachscdub on Jul 13, 2021 12:24:46 GMT -6
So i worked at a school as a frosh coach two years ago, going into that year the Frosh HC told me how good the team the year before was. The RB ran for 2000 yards and over 40TDs, and the main WR had over 10 receiving TDs. Over the summer the varsity staff, in particular the OC managed to annoy the RB so much so that he transferred out. Apparently it was something along the line of they wanted him to play Slot WR and he wanted to stay at RB. The WR was a stud and played on both sides of the ball as a sophomore. The team did great, won 10 games, a playoff game, and lost in the second round. Well some time either toward the end of the season or early off season, the OC and HC managed to annoy the WR, and he then transferred out as well. Well in looking up a different kid today on state rankings i noticed that the WR is the 15th ranked player in the state and has accepted an offer to a Power 5 school. The RB kid is no slouch either, he hasnt received incredible recruiting coverage, but he plays on a great team and looks to be a 3 star or so ranked player. Anyways i bring all this up to just say wow, how incredible that the OC and HC managed to sour two relationships with two of the best kids to walk through the halls in quite a while. Yes i realize their is more to this than what i covered, and yes i realize that their are intricacies and conversations that i am not privy too, but just still it's a big wow moment for me to see that talent essentially be let go of. Just to clarify, what level were the stats referenced put up at? Frosh ball |
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Post by coachcb on Jul 13, 2021 12:49:19 GMT -6
I agree...There's more to the story. Maybe the coaches were out of line in some manner, maybe the athletes were or it was a combination of the two.
Late this spring, I asked an athletic sophomore RB/WR why he hadnt been to weights that week. He made a poor choice in his response: "I've got weights at home so I'm lifting there. Plus, what's it matter if I come to football weights? You guys need me next year."
I calmly explained to him that each of his positions required four or five jobs and that I could name a half dozen guys who could do those jobs. As such we don't "need anyone".
He made another poor choice: "Well, you know I'm going to be starting, coach."
Again, calmly, I told him that I had no idea who'd be starting at those positions but that his attitude was sure to put him at the bottom of the depth chart, defensively.
Two days later, he told the HC that I was an a$$hole and he wasn't playing next year. The HC wished him well.
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klaby
Junior Member
Posts: 389
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Post by klaby on Jul 21, 2021 9:25:49 GMT -6
This is what happens when coaches forget its not about them. Its about these kids....too many coaches have forgotten why they started coaching. They start believing that it is about them, mostly because media and others start making it about them. And most will not allow their ego's to see that they stopped making it about the kids and have made it about them.
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Post by wildcatslbcoach24 on Jul 22, 2021 18:55:24 GMT -6
There are teams all over the country where if they let every kid pick what position they wanted to play, they would be unable to field a team. While I don't know the situation, your language choices "managed to annoy" (twice) makes me think you don' have much regard for the coaches and you see this as their failure? To be convinced of that, I'd need a lot more info. Yeah there would literally be no one on the OL if kids got to decide where they played, that or every team would run the A11 |
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Post by bleefb on Jul 22, 2021 20:25:04 GMT -6
You can win with kids like that, but you can lose with them too. You must be willing to lose in order to have discipline, and if you don't have it you will most assuredly lose. I've always tried to believe in this, but we've played teams with NO discipline (fights among themselves, shoving coaches, 200 yards of penalties a game, etc) and they've won the league because they had great talent. It was depressing.  |
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