scenario to think about

[61]

I am a coach at a school with little talent. What talent we do have is talked into going straight basketball. The basketball coach doesn't tell the kids to not play football. He certainly doesn't tell them that they should though. Should he be canned? His first loyalty should be to the head football coach, who is his AD, that hired him.

[brophy]

around here.....the Basketball Cults demand that kids play basketball and ONLY basketball. Sounds like your situation ain't that bad.

[herky]

And the cause for firing him would be...??

Sounds like the basketball coach is connecting with the kids in a way you guys are not. Do you urge all football players to go out for basketball? If not, you cannot blame him for encouraging his sport.

If you are personally not in a position of authority to 'can' the guy, don't waste your energy stewing about him. That's just an excuse. Focus on what your actions and what you can control. Turn that energy into recruiting those athletes. Be proactive and talk to the kids about their athletic interests, make yourself available to them....connect to them. Work the middle schools hard and start early to introduce football.

I would also encourage you to support all the other sports at your school. It is easier to work with them than against them. If you aspire to be a HC/AD, having a football only (other sports suck) mentality will only polarize your program.

[knighter]

Herky needsto be an assistant coach! Spoken like a woman who knows her stuff (imagine that, she IS after all from Iowa, where all the intelligent people come from or flock to) LOL

[cqmiller]

That's a common battle in almost every school. I have learned to just assume that those kids aren't going to be back, because for some reason, Basketball makes the kids think that they won't make it unless they do nothing but basketball. We have about 2 or 3 of our best athletes dump football for basketball each year, but I haven't seen any of them go D1 in basketball.

Try to bring up the fact that Allen Iverson still played football all through high school, even though he knew he was going to go D1 in basketball. Randy Moss did both, and there are plenty of people playing in the NFL/NBA who still played both in high school. Helps if you get a college coach to explain to the kids that they like "multiple athletes" (kids who can do more than one sport)

[herky]

knighter said:

Herky needsto be an assistant coach! Spoken like a woman who knows her stuff (imagine that, she IS after all from Iowa, where all the intelligent people come from or flock to) LOL

I am open for hire at any school, especially ones minutes from Kinnick.

[coachcalande]

Honestly, the kids will gravitate toward the coach they feel loves them and cares for them and also gives them the best chance for success...I agree that all coaches should promote all sports...afterall, keeping kids well rounded and active to enhance their education is the goal...but if kids choose to play hoops over football so be it. I know that kids often ask "whos the coach" as the first question when we push sports.

[knighter]

I believe I know of which school is minutes from Kinnick Herky!

[61]

The problem is, the guy isn't saying "don't go play football". He just isn't telling the kids they should. We do want and tell all the kids to play all the sports. He does not. He is cutting the AD's nuts by doing this. It is stupid. Once the AD gets fired for his football record, then the basketball guy will too.

[knighter]

Does he know you would like him to encourage them to play FB? Have you asked him for his help? Maybe he does not know that is what you want....talk to him.

[herky]

Knighter has a great point.

I find it hard to think the bball coach has that much power to derail your program. Is it safe to assume the problems run deeper than you are describing?

Is this basketball coach part of the footbal staff? How are the interactions with the football and bball staffs? What has the AD done to address your concerns?

[Deleted]

Our basketball coach isn't a football guy, never played the game, but my gosh does he support our program. We do the little things we can to help him out, knowing in turn he'll help us. That means that he never has to have summer weight room duty, he'll come when he wants to check in on the kids, but we tell him not to worry about it. We communicate all summer about what camp is when, who will go, etc. and we make sure our dates never conflict. Shoot, he even talks to us about the kids he's considering cutting or keeping. And in the past 2 years our programs are a combined 66-10 with 2 state titles and 1 runners up 1 3rd place.

It's a lot of give and take, and we've both benefited. I think the only way to solve the problem is to make it where he relies on you as much as you'll need to rely on him. Kids listen to coaches for support and advice. He may not be telling them NOT to play football, but he may get a few interested if he would. How often do we encourage kids to wrestle or run track? Our track coach loves how many kids we push toward him. He in turn takes care of us.

I'm not saying anything new, though.

[61]

He has been told what the expectations are. He lifts not a finger to help us out. It is to the point where whenever his name is even mentioned, the other coaches on staff all say "backstabber" under their breath. The problem is, he is in so tight with the principal he might be hard to get rid of. Major brownoser. This school does not have enough athletes to do this. Both programs will be hurt. This idiot doesn't seem to realize this.

[coachd5085]

Umm...... just out of left field... what if the kids DO NOT WANT TO PLAY FOOTBALL? You sould like a HUGE SACK OF SOUR GRAPES man and you haven't even REMOTELY considered (at last on this site) that possibility.

I realize things get lost in translation online, but all I read is .."whaa..whaa.... he won't get us any players...". Last I read, HE WAS THE BBALL coach, and his FIRST priority should be to the BASKETBALL team.

DAMN MAN, go get them yourself. If they don't want to play for you guys, LOOK IN THE MIRROR, don't point the finger. I mean SERIOUSLY....look at the first post...you want a fire a guy for NOT doing YOUR job???

[coachjd]

Why get anywhere even close to kinnick. They have pink lockerooms!!

[firebird]

Why not try adding the BBall coach to the football staff? That is what I did. I don't care if the guy knows football or not, if he is a head basketball coach, he obviously can teach, coach, and work with kids. He can be taught the game. If he has a vested interest in your program, you can be sure he will help get those kids out.

Also, I agree that the students must feel that the coach loves them, respects them, and will do virtually anything for them if they are going to play and give their all to his program. From my experience, kids today have major trust issues and a coach must show a potential player that he can be trusted.

Just my $.02

[61]

coachd5085 said:

Umm...... just out of left field... what if the kids DO NOT WANT TO PLAY FOOTBALL? You sould like a HUGE SACK OF SOUR GRAPES man and you haven't even REMOTELY considered (at last on this site) that possibility.

I realize things get lost in translation online, but all I read is .."whaa..whaa.... he won't get us any players...". Last I read, HE WAS THE BBALL coach, and his FIRST priority should be to the BASKETBALL team.

DAMN MAN, go get them yourself. If they don't want to play for you guys, LOOK IN THE MIRROR, don't point the finger. I mean SERIOUSLY....look at the first post...you want a fire a guy for NOT doing YOUR job???

I am not the AD/HFC. It is a loyalty question more than anything. The HFC, wearing his AD hat has told the basketball guy that he wants as many kids playing everything they can. The basketball coach lies to the kids and tells them they are going to go off to college to play basketball, because we all know that 6'3" post men are coveted in college basketball. You can take it as whining if you want sir, but it is a straight up matter of loyalty to the AD/HFC. If the guy is actively trying to get kids to go STRAIGHT basketball then yes, he should be canned. This is not a matter of the kids NOT wanting to play football as much as is it, the kids are being talked into specializing in ONE sport. The football staff highly encourages all the kids to play as many sports as possible. We want the kids to play basketball. It's good for them. He should want kids that play basketball to play football as well. He does not. The AD has told him otherwise. Therefore, he should be canned. If you can't see the loyalty issue here then I would never want to work for you, or have you on my staff in the future.

[brophy]

61 said:

The basketball coach lies to the kids and tells them they are going to go off to college to play basketball, because we all know that 6'3" post men are coveted in college basketball. This is not a matter of the kids NOT wanting to play football as much as is it, the kids are being talked into specializing in ONE sport. He does not. The AD has told him otherwise. Therefore, he should be canned.

Whoa,whoa,whoa,whoa,whoa, whoa.........

I understand you're frustrated with your situation. I cannot preach to you on what to do. However, maybe I'm missing something, but everything I've read up to this point is nothing to call "disloyalty", much less grounds for termination. What basketball coach doesn't try to sell kids on getting scholarships? We've lost some really good players to basketball and baseball because of that lure, but also because those coaches DEMAND that the kids not play any other sport and/or punishing players that miss a summer baseball/basketball practice to attend a football camp! Try working around THAT situation (which is common for a lot of us). As long as the BB coach is not prohibiting those kids from participating in other sports....I don't really believe you have a legitimate beef.

[superpower]

While I think it is important, especially in small schools, to encourage kids to be 3-sport athletes, the reality is that some kids just don't want to play football and will use any excuse they can find. If the basketball coach is telling them they can play college ball, then the kids will use that as an excuse instead of having the integrity to just tell the fb coach they aren't interested.

However, the more important point, in my opinion, is to focus on the kids who do want to play football. Think about what message you are sending to the kids who are committed to football when the focus is on the basketball players that you wish were out for football. Don't worry about the ones that you don't have. Coach the ones you do have and make them the best they can be.

[groundchuck]

We had a basketball coach who was a GREAT hoops coach. And he was truely a hoops coach. Nine months out of the year he was a basketball coach. Three months of the year he coached the OL for me. He was 6-8 310# and played TE in high school. He worked really well with the OL. The two years he coached at our school all the hoops kids also played football. He gave them a choice, play football or run X-country. Everyone played football. He was very supportive. Now the other 9 months was all hoops for him and that was fine. He left for a bigger school. The current hoops coach scouts for me, as he is a former head football coach and knows exactly what to look for. He also does a great job encouraging them to use the wt room. Not that the kids listen to either of us but he tries.

[coachseven]

We had serious problems with one sport athletes and are just now fighting through them. We are a small 2A school and when we first got here all the athletes where one sporters and that was almost never football. We had less than 30 kids turn out the first year for football. We couldn't even practice until the 9th grade got out after school had 19 kids (10-12) All the coaches were telling the kids to only play their sport.

We sat down as a staff and discussed how to overcome the issue. We set out to win the other coaches trust and approval. First we discussed the importance of being a multisport athlete to our kids. We sold them on this fact constantly. It worked we only had 5 kids in our offseason.

We then as coaches set out to help the other sports as much as possible. Helped coach, show up to games, organized cheer sections, talked with the other coaches constantly about our multi-sport philosphy, about our workout philosphy, worked their tournaments, drove thier buses. Walked the Walk not just talked the talk. We are 100% behind every program in our athletic department.

This year we had over 50 kids out for football. Every coach is encouraging their kids to play football and all other sports for that matter. Football went from 4-6 to 9-3. Wrestling finished 3rd in the state. The Basketball team almost made the state tournament. Did we get all the kids out "no" but we got more out. The group of brainwashed seniors still only one sported. Our basketball team of the top 6 players only one played football.

We had spring football sign-ups the other day and we had nearly 90 kids sign-up. Next years basketball team looks to have 9 of there top 10 players playing. We told all our kids in the meeting that they will play another sport if they want to play football.

One of the big pushes we are doing now is in the Jr. High daily selling the kids on being multi-sport athletes. We talk to them about the benefits of other sports and how it is selfish to only play one sport and we always talk up the other programs. I think it is very important to never say negative about another program. Kids aren't stupid they know when you don't like another program.

My suggestion is get to know all the coaches in your school and show them that you are going to help their program. This creates a positive environment for everyone.

[superpower]

seven, great proactive approach

[knighter]

I agree somewhat, STOP worrying about who SHOULD or COULD be out, and COACH the ones you do have. We never complain about who is out or who is not, we do not control that issue. What we do control is the kids we HAVE in the program, and we spend our time trying to make them better. Actively recruit your own hallways, show the kids you care for them by attending any and all extra curricular events, see them after the game, concert, tell them they did a good job. Bottom line is kids will give your program a shot if they KNOW you care about them. They do not care how much you know, until they know how much you care. If they see you coaching the hellout of the kids in your program, see the difference you are making, see the time you invest in helping athletes, they will come to your program. If they do not want to be there, you do not want them anyway. I have never talked a kid into playing football, will not beg. I present them with an opportunity, and I coach the hell out of them if they give me a chance. I even offer to help them in Strength and Agility if they are not a part of my program. They will "see" through what you say, but they will BELIEVE what you do (or what they see you doing). Keep working....

[brophy]

coachseven....man, GREAT STUFF there....probably something we all can learn from and apply. That really takes some balls to own that!

We all have our own set of challenges to deal with - best of luck to 61 in handling this one.

One thing, though, the "serious" BB guys, we've found are basketball players because they are just real soft (IMO) and don't appreciate the physical play of football and use basketball as an excuse as why the don't apply themselves to football (and why they don't apply themselves aggressively in the weight room).

[blb]

I agree whole-heartedly with knighter. Don't worry about the ones who aren't there or who your opponents have - coach and love the ones that have the desire, courage and enthusiasm to put the pads on for you.

It must be their idea to play. Sometimes when you talk a kid into coming out he gets the notion that you owe him something (read: PT) and doesn't invest himself in the program.

Football is not for everyone. It is neither easy or simple - if it were, there'd be no need for soccer.

[airman]

i was at a school which you could not be player of the year, unless you were a 3 sport athlete.

they had for the most part one or two sport athletes. the new ad believed in 3 sport athletes.

they had a parade all american not be the female athlete of the year because all she did was play basketball.

the award when to this girl who was not great, but a solid contributor in all 3 sports.

they now have a ton of 3 sport athletes. the ad believed that it is better for a kid to be playing another sport then to even be up in the weight room. the majority of kids go to the weight room and just talk and do alittle lifting.

that changed though to. school got out at 2:30 and the weight room door closed at 3pm. you were either in the weight room lifting or you were with your friends talking out in the commons.

weight room also became very structured.

[groundchuck]

airman said:

i was at a school which you could not be player of the year, unless you were a 3 sport athlete.

they had for the most part one or two sport athletes. the new ad believed in 3 sport athletes.

they had a parade all american not be the female athlete of the year because all she did was play basketball.

the award when to this girl who was not great, but a solid contributor in all 3 sports.

they now have a ton of 3 sport athletes. the ad believed that it is better for a kid to be playing another sport then to even be up in the weight room. the majority of kids go to the weight room and just talk and do alittle lifting.

that changed though to. school got out at 2:30 and the weight room door closed at 3pm. you were either in the weight room lifting or you were with your friends talking out in the commons.

weight room also became very structured.

We had that policy too. You had to be in a minimum of 2 sports to get nominated and most winners were 3 sport athletes. I think it is an excellent idea.