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Post by fballcoachg on Apr 24, 2014 17:40:54 GMT -6
This situation is either exaggerated or the biggest cluster ever.
1) Whether you are the HC or not, if you are raising the money for these clowns than let them know you raised the money. I'd be the biggest a-ho`le in the world to these dudes if they really don't do anything.
2) How do you justify having that many coaches when you aren't knocking anybodies socks off? Seems like a real shoddy return on the investment...heck, even if you were winning championships consistently there is no way 27 coaches are a conducive set up. How many kids do you all have?
3) You aren't the HC and it is clear he isn't going to do anything about it so unfortunately you need to either keep doing what you are doing and just suck it up accepting that he isn't going to fix it or have a heart to heart with the HC and tell him you aren't raising funds for cats that aren't carrying their weight.
4) If you are going to be miserable because your HC is afraid of accountability to some old stand bys than maybe you need to search for another gig.
Out of curiosity how do you get a commission off of fundraising? I've never heard of that and quite frankly it doesn't sound above board to me at all.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Apr 24, 2014 17:50:45 GMT -6
Why would coaching be different from any other profession? There will always be those who put in the bare minimum amount of effort, and expect the world in return. Personally, I'm thankful for these people. It makes the work I put in stand out all that much more. true. There is difference between the bare minimum and nothing. I think the bare minimum should be showing up to the weight room once in awhile and coming to freakin meetings.
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Post by spos21ram on Apr 24, 2014 18:13:12 GMT -6
Who and where is the AD in all this mess? Sounds like a privately funded team that has nothing to do with school. Good for you on the commission, but if someone around here was making money off of the donations there would be an uprising if certain parents and businesses found out.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Apr 24, 2014 18:35:31 GMT -6
This situation is either exaggerated or the biggest cluster ever. 1) Whether you are the HC or not, if you are raising the money for these clowns than let them know you raised the money. I'd be the biggest a-ho`le in the world to these dudes if they really don't do anything. 2) How do you justify having that many coaches when you aren't knocking anybodies socks off? Seems like a real shoddy return on the investment...heck, even if you were winning championships consistently there is no way 27 coaches are a conducive set up. How many kids do you all have? 3) You aren't the HC and it is clear he isn't going to do anything about it so unfortunately you need to either keep doing what you are doing and just suck it up accepting that he isn't going to fix it or have a heart to heart with the HC and tell him you aren't raising funds for cats that aren't carrying their weight. 4) If you are going to be miserable because your HC is afraid of accountability to some old stand bys than maybe you need to search for another gig. Out of curiosity how do you get a commission off of fundraising? I've never heard of that and quite frankly it doesn't sound above board to me at all. its not exaggerated, I wish it was. I am very loyal to the head coach and wouldn't want to coach for someone else unless I was in charge. I will just have start cracking some skulls and ruffling some feathers myself and deal with the consequences. As far as the fundraising commission thing goes, it was kind of sketchy to get going. The athletic director cleared it though, and I think he took it a few rungs above him. I had to set up an llc to get it going, so I'm not really different from any other fundraising company that you may use selling cards or cookie dough. I primarily set up traditional signage advertising opportunities in our stadium and weird promos in game. Think minor league baseball weird stuff if you have a team in your town for our major sponsors. The most successful program that raises a ton of money for us is an email advertising program. Businesses will pay about 3 grand for 1000 good email addresses for people near them. I charge them $1000 for three thousand addresses in our town. So its a no brainer for them because it's a tax write off. I get whatever promo they want to put out each month and send it out to our fans. The moms love it, can opt out anytime, and their kids don't have to fund raise. Put some nice videos of your kids working out or doing weird stuff up on Facebook and Twitter, and make them enter their email address before they can get to your fan page and it grows itself. I'm sharing this because I know that many teams struggle to pay their bills, and I hate fundraising companies that charge you 40% to go out and have your kids sell some lame product. You just have to be willing to do the legwork. Money has never been an issue since we started doing this.
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Apr 24, 2014 19:08:08 GMT -6
According to the Association of Fundraising Professionals, accepting commissions on fundraising dollars for charitable organizations is unethical. Do you make it clear to donors that commissions are being paid to solicitors? I don't know the specific legalities involved, but I would venture a guess that what you're involved in is neither ethical nor legal in many states.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Apr 24, 2014 20:00:09 GMT -6
According to the Association of Fundraising Professionals, accepting commissions on fundraising dollars for charitable organizations is unethical. Do you make it clear to donors that commissions are being paid to solicitors? I don't know the specific legalities involved, but I would venture a guess that what you're involved in is neither ethical nor legal in many states. I agree, that was one of the things that the AD and administration checked into. I am not a great legal mind on this stuff although I probably should be. I don't get a commission check like a sales guy. It's just a concept that everyone knows that I used to explain it. Basically, fundraising was written into my coaching contract duties, so it's considered part of my stipend and thus I am accepting a salary like other fundraising professionals. The booster club can pay me whatever it wants, so they review my performance each year and cut me a check. I know it's a gray area, but technically it's legal. When we started this, we were DEEP in the hole, and the booster club didn't have the money to go out and front some guy cash to do fundraising. Coach asked me to go get money and I did, and that how I get paid. The Feds haven't kicked down my door yet, so I think I'm good.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Apr 24, 2014 20:46:51 GMT -6
Who and where is the AD in all this mess? Sounds like a privately funded team that has nothing to do with school. Good for you on the commission, but if someone around here was making money off of the donations there would be an uprising if certain parents and businesses found out.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Apr 24, 2014 21:18:05 GMT -6
Who and where is the AD in all this mess? Sounds like a privately funded team that has nothing to do with school. Good for you on the commission, but if someone around here was making money off of the donations there would be an uprising if certain parents and businesses found out. dont get get me started on the AD, I call him the turd. He sits in his office all day spouting cliches when there is chaos around him. The school district gives us three grand for equipment. I can get that on a decent day of fundraising in the summer pretty easy, so yes it is a privately funded team. Most everyone knows me as the "fundraising guy" and know I get paid for it and there is no problem. A parent did confront me at booster club meeting about making money that is tied to fundraising. When I told her that the funds I brought in were used to renovate the boys and girls locker rooms, upgrade a bunch of stuff in the stadium and weight room, and the alternative was that she was she was going to have to pay somewhere around a grand for her son to play football, she was suddenly ok with it. I know this situation is abnormal. Honestly, I work in a yuppie town where there is too much money, and it brings out the worst in HS sports. Yes, I do benefit from it, but I would rather just be blowing out all of our opponents and win championships than have to worry about this junk.
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Post by breakerdog on Apr 24, 2014 21:51:29 GMT -6
You need to do a 30 for 30 short on this teams situation. Seriously, this is crazy.
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Post by wingtol on Apr 25, 2014 6:32:02 GMT -6
I need to stop reading this. Or I am going to end up like this guy:
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Post by coachphillip on Apr 25, 2014 8:20:09 GMT -6
Why would coaching be different from any other profession? There will always be those who put in the bare minimum amount of effort, and expect the world in return. Personally, I'm thankful for these people. It makes the work I put in stand out all that much more. Not trying to be a DB, but I have never been grateful for having people who put in the bare minimum. This goes doubly for people on my own staff. I'm not trying to stand out. I'm trying to help kids win games. You can be Vince Lombardi on a staff of schmucks and that's great, but those poor kids will be losers their entire high school careers and that is not okay.
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Post by mariner42 on Apr 25, 2014 9:13:19 GMT -6
Yeah, I'm tapping out of this one.
Either this place is totally f*cked and unique in all things or we're being had.
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jmg999
Junior Member
Posts: 263
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Post by jmg999 on Apr 25, 2014 13:16:40 GMT -6
Why would coaching be different from any other profession? There will always be those who put in the bare minimum amount of effort, and expect the world in return. Personally, I'm thankful for these people. It makes the work I put in stand out all that much more. Not trying to be a DB, but I have never been grateful for having people who put in the bare minimum. This goes doubly for people on my own staff. I'm not trying to stand out. I'm trying to help kids win games. You can be Vince Lombardi on a staff of schmucks and that's great, but those poor kids will be losers their entire high school careers and that is not okay. I'm not the head coach. The head coach's job is to assess the effort's of others, and make judgments based on those assessments. My job is to do my job to the best of my ability, and if others aren't pulling their weight, it makes my efforts more apparent. I can't coach the entire team, nor would I want to. If my efforts are more appreciated, b/c I show up to work, that's a bonus I get from having done nothing more than taking care of my primary responsibilities.
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Post by 19delta on Apr 27, 2014 8:05:46 GMT -6
The worst thing about it is that we do all of our fundraising via corporate sponsorship. I ended up being the sales guy ( which I really like and wouldn't give up if given the choice) and when I walk into a meeting with a potential sponsor, I can't help but think " I gotta convince this guy to give me $7k because old John boy has to get paid . I wonder what he is up to? I haven't seen him in 6 months" The amount of coaching salary that is doled out would make you guys puke a little. I know because I do every time I look at it. It's by far and away our biggest expense. It really pisses me off when I know that money could be going to the kids or to some awesome pieces of equipment. Then don't do it? Seriously, don't freakin do it. Talk to the HC about it. You're either part of the solution or part of the problem. Yeah! Thing is, if I am doing fundraising that is going to benefit the TEAM (weight room or practice equipment, new uniforms, etc, etc), I am going to work my ass off. On the other hand, if I am required to fundraise to pay for some deadbeat who is only going to show up from August to November, I am going to drag my feet and do a really {censored} job.
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Post by 19delta on Apr 27, 2014 8:07:52 GMT -6
This is an easy problem to fix. I have never been involved in a workplace dispute that couldn't be resolved with an "Office Space" quote!
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Post by spos21ram on Apr 27, 2014 8:16:14 GMT -6
What exactly do ya do here?
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Post by 19delta on Apr 27, 2014 8:21:19 GMT -6
Am I reading this right? The paid coaches receive stipends, but the money isn't coming from the school? The coaches are paid through private funding through fundraising and sponsors? So how many coaches are actually paid by the school? How many real paid coaches are there? We have 9 total coaches. 6 paid by the school as paid coaches. The other three are volunteer coaches that we pay through fundraising. So I can say we have 9 paid coaches, but as far as the school is concerned, we have 6 coaches, the rest are volunteer. 11 are paid from the school. 16 are paid through private fundraising. all of us, including the stat and video guy ( whom I didn't include because they just show up on friday) are paid, we have zero volunteer coaches. we basically have a coach for every position on the field, an ILB, OLB, DT, DE, S, CB, wr, rb qb, wr 2 OL coaches at every freakin level of play. I know its crazy. I came from a school where we had 11 guys, where 4 were volunteers. There has been 3 or 4 New HC's since 2000. Everytime a new one comes through, it seems like that HC didn't fire anyone and just added the guys he wanted. Finding money for all these clowns, along with all the other crap we buy is a major component of my job from may to august. I spend roughly 4 hours a day just doing fundraising stuff during that time period. Its a lot of work, and my HC helps me out quite a bit, but its doable. Fortunately, I get to keep a percentage of what I bring in, so it is worth my time. I essentially take the place of some fundraising company that is going to keep a huge chunk of whatever they have your kids selling. I get to make a decent chunk of change on top of my normal job, and we don't have to put pressure on our kids to fundraise, so everyone is happy. When you meet with potential sponsors, do you tell them that the money you raise is primarily going to pay coaches? I would imagine that some of those businesses would expect that the money they donate would be used directly on the kids or to improve facilities and equipment.
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Post by 19delta on Apr 27, 2014 8:28:02 GMT -6
You're going to have to make a decision. Either this is a problem for you or it's not. If it's a problem, you're going to have to give the HC a choice- sh** or get off the pot. He can't have his cake and eat it too. He's either going to have to ruffle some feathers and get rid of dead weight OR you're out. If it isn't a problem for you, then there's nothing you can do about it. Your life sucks, deal with it. This isn't really a football program. It's much closer to a pyramid scheme. Sounds like the primary function of the illusion of a "football program" is to make money for the adults involved with it. The kids are basically feudal serfs.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 27, 2014 8:32:22 GMT -6
You're going to have to make a decision. Either this is a problem for you or it's not. If it's a problem, you're going to have to give the HC a choice- sh** or get off the pot. He can't have his cake and eat it too. He's either going to have to ruffle some feathers and get rid of dead weight OR you're out. If it isn't a problem for you, then there's nothing you can do about it. Your life sucks, deal with it. This isn't really a football program. It's much closer to a pyramid scheme. Sounds like the primary function of the illusion of a "football program" is to make money for the adults involved with it. The kids are basically feudal serfs. This could be a very early model of what "AAU" football or "club" football will be if HS sports continue to go that route
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Post by 19delta on Apr 27, 2014 8:36:19 GMT -6
This isn't really a football program. It's much closer to a pyramid scheme. Sounds like the primary function of the illusion of a "football program" is to make money for the adults involved with it. The kids are basically feudal serfs. This could be a very early model of what "AAU" football or "club" football will be if HS sports continue to go that route Yep. By the time I got to Page 3 of this thread, that is EXACTLY what I thought!
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Post by utchuckd on Apr 27, 2014 18:22:29 GMT -6
Sounds like some of the coaches on this staff are only doing the bare minimum on their pieces of flair.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Apr 28, 2014 9:11:19 GMT -6
This could be a very early model of what "AAU" football or "club" football will be if HS sports continue to go that route Yep. By the time I got to Page 3 of this thread, that is EXACTLY what I thought! at least the kids aren't out raising money. I think it is wasteful to have that many coaches for sure, and that money could go back to the kids. This is very common in my area. I know a very successful hockey coach that clears six figures just for himself. He has about 100 kids transfer in from all over the state to workout and fundraise for the team all summer. They pay a couple grand a piece for ice time and strength and conditioning. He ends up profiting about a hundred grand. Obviously, only 20 end up making the roster, the rest end up transfering back to their old school ineligible for hockey. Most of the time they were the best player on their old team and spend the season in the stands.
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Post by newhope on Apr 28, 2014 10:52:31 GMT -6
If you are paying 27 coaches, you are paying too many. Get rid of half of them and double the pay of the rest--with the stipulation it's a year round deal. If they aren't going to work in the offseason, they aren't going to coach. This is on the HC, not on you.
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souza12
Sophomore Member
Posts: 179
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Post by souza12 on Apr 28, 2014 11:23:01 GMT -6
Our weight room culture has been terrible the past few years with one guy in there. This year, we have four guys daily and three others frequently and we are killing it in the weight room. Form looks better, numbers are up, relationships are better, intensity level is higher. It's great with bodies there. *end hijack* Isnt this the coach's first freshman to senior class also? That could have a lot to do with it. Not to downplay the coaches' roles in the weight room I like newpride's idea... addition by subtraction
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Post by coachphillip on Apr 28, 2014 13:26:22 GMT -6
Our weight room culture has been terrible the past few years with one guy in there. This year, we have four guys daily and three others frequently and we are killing it in the weight room. Form looks better, numbers are up, relationships are better, intensity level is higher. It's great with bodies there. *end hijack* Isnt this the coach's first freshman to senior class also? That could have a lot to do with it. Not to downplay the coaches' roles in the weight room I like newpride's idea... addition by subtraction You're right. I mentioned that in a different thread. This class has been lifting since they were pups.
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Post by 19delta on Apr 28, 2014 18:23:51 GMT -6
Yep. By the time I got to Page 3 of this thread, that is EXACTLY what I thought! at least the kids aren't out raising money. I think it is wasteful to have that many coaches for sure, and that money could go back to the kids. This is very common in my area. I know a very successful hockey coach that clears six figures just for himself. He has about 100 kids transfer in from all over the state to workout and fundraise for the team all summer. They pay a couple grand a piece for ice time and strength and conditioning. He ends up profiting about a hundred grand. Obviously, only 20 end up making the roster, the rest end up transfering back to their old school ineligible for hockey. Most of the time they were the best player on their old team and spend the season in the stands. What state are you in? What kind of crazy-ass transfer rules does your state have that 100 kids could transfer to another high school over the summer SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY SPORTS and then be eligible to play? Does this hockey coach run a private team? Or is this at a public high school? Regardless...what you guys are doing sounds shady and potentially illegal. After reading this saga, I have come to believe that the biggest reason your program sucks is because all of the adults involved are more interested in collecting their vig than they are in coaching up the kids.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Apr 29, 2014 8:31:17 GMT -6
What state are you in? What kind of crazy-ass transfer rules does your state have that 100 kids could transfer to another high school over the summer SPECIFICALLY TO PLAY SPORTS and then be eligible to play? Does this hockey coach run a private team? Or is this at a public high school? Regardless...what you guys are doing sounds shady and potentially illegal. After reading this saga, I have come to believe that the biggest reason your program sucks is because all of the adults involved are more interested in collecting their vig than they are in coaching up the kids. MN...hockey here is what football is to Texas. Stuff can get wild. They can transfer once and play as long as they move their address. There is an apartment complex across the street from the school where literally a bunch of 16 and 17 year old boys live unattended. They go to school in the fall, and when they get cut from the hockey team in the winter,they go back to their old school to hang with their friends, leaving them ineligible for a year. The hockey coach runs a private skills and strength and conditioning camp where he pays to rent out his own schools facilities. It is not " mandatory" to sign up for the camp to play for the public school team but is sort of an unwritten rule. I know this because he is the athletic director at the school that I was at previously. As far as what I do, I can assure you that it is not illegal. We made sure our plan was legally bulletproof before we started. every team has to fundraise many teams use private companies to aid in this process. In our situation, the guy who runs the fundraising company, is also on on the staff, so he has pretty good motivation to make sure that the team is well funded. We just happen to be good at it which makes a lot of people uncomfortable. The school district can thank itself for the monster it's created. We have a well funded district, but the school district takes our gate money, the athletic department takes our concession money, and we are left with massive bills that no bake sale will cover. I agree with you that our team sucks because we have too many coaches on the dole with cushy pay checks. Unfortunately, there is not much I can do about it.
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Post by larrymoe on Apr 29, 2014 8:50:53 GMT -6
Ummmm.... Ya there is. Stop raising the money for them.
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Post by rbcrusaders on Jul 21, 2014 12:44:21 GMT -6
Good luck, coach
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Post by benmcmahon on Jul 28, 2014 14:03:51 GMT -6
as coaches and and part of a team staff we need to learn why people do what they do, what are there tendencies , why are they not listening and what am I not giving them to get them to listen, if we can learn to do that I can guarantee team performance will go up. My Ceo wrote this recently and I think there is a lot of good advice in the article for this situation www.huffingtonpost.com/lewis-michael-senior/doing-your-best-isnt-good_b_5622749.html
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