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Post by coachnichols on Mar 7, 2015 13:52:06 GMT -6
I think I already know the answer to my question, but I'm wanting other opinions before I act.
I don't want to go into great detail about the specific situation so let me set up a hypothetical situation.
Two coaches on a staff, one a coordinator and the other a position coach. Coordinator has been at the school for several years and position coach is new this past season. Position coach has 10+ years experience and has been a coordinator and head coach. Rest of the other coaches on staff have very little experience. Staff is already divided coming into the last season. Last season goes poorly, and after the banquet the coordinator is demoted and replaced with the position coach. His reaction is to quit and spread negativity among the players about the HC and the new coordinator that replaced him. Then, HC resigns this spring, and both coaches apply for the job and get interviews. New coordinator gets the job.
My question is, does the new head coach even consider using this guy on staff or is that bridge burned?
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Post by agap on Mar 7, 2015 14:17:31 GMT -6
Did the position coach have anything to do with the coordinator being demoted?
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Post by coach2013 on Mar 7, 2015 14:36:09 GMT -6
Past behavior is the best predictor for future behavior- this guy runs around spreading his disease once, he will do it again.
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Post by lochness on Mar 7, 2015 14:48:28 GMT -6
If there is any doubt at all about someone's loyalty or integrity, they are a no-go. I'd coach the entire team myself (or resign) before I'd put guys I don't know, like, and trust on my staff representing me and teaching our players.
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Post by coachnichols on Mar 7, 2015 14:55:23 GMT -6
agap--In this hypothetical situation, the AD and HC considered the demotion in May but decided that was too late to make such a significant change. So, this past season was the last season for the coordinator but he didn't know that ahead of time of course. As far as "have anything to do with the coordinator being demoted", the position coach and coordinator did not really get along from the first moment, so the position coach was all for the change. If you mean did he do anything to sabotage the coordinator, I would say no. This is very much a situation of letting someone hang themselves, if you are familiar with the saying.
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Post by mariner42 on Mar 7, 2015 14:58:12 GMT -6
If there is any doubt at all about someone's loyalty or integrity, they are a no-go. I'd coach the entire team myself (or resign) before I'd put guys I don't know, like, and trust on my staff representing me and teaching our players. Learned this one the very hard way. One bad hire probably ruined our season and by extension my job. Took me two years to get out from under the fallout of that one.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Mar 7, 2015 15:01:27 GMT -6
I think the quote under your avatar says it all.
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Post by wingtol on Mar 7, 2015 18:04:51 GMT -6
No. Hell no. First for well all the reason you stated in the OP. Second, and I told a guy I started coaching with this and consider a good friend, never hire the guys that want(ed) your job to start with. He didn't listen and it came back to bite him in the ass in a big way.
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 7, 2015 19:32:00 GMT -6
Sounds like the whole staff is phycked up. A & B has it out for C so C gets fired. C then trashes A, B, D, E, & etc..... After that part of the story the rest is pfft and this staff/program became one of the notorious HueyBoard stories.
I hope you're not A, B, C, etc.....
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Post by newhope on Mar 9, 2015 10:17:03 GMT -6
The two didn't get along from day one and it sounds like nothing good has transpired between them since then. Why put them together again and expect a different result?
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Post by coachfloyd on Mar 9, 2015 10:48:16 GMT -6
if you can at all help it, don't coach with dudes you can't trust.
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Post by runitupthemiddle on Mar 9, 2015 11:19:20 GMT -6
^yep^
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Post by fantom on Mar 9, 2015 11:41:49 GMT -6
They did't even like each other in the first place. The position coach replaced the coordinator. The coordinator then quit and started bad-mouthing the program. All of this is after they knew that they were going to fire the coordinator (Still wrapping my head around keeping him around and "Letting him hang himself").
Why would they even consider hiring him again?
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Post by jrk5150 on Mar 9, 2015 12:10:51 GMT -6
I can't even see where there is a question here. Not a chance I'd consider the guy given the situation as laid out, the biggest factor to me saying it's a dead issue is that the two didn't get along in the first place.
IF the two got along, and then the coordinator felt he was betrayed by the new guy along with whatever other history he had with the HC, then MAYBE I would entertain a discussion where the guy could earn his way back over time. People can react poorly and do stupid things, and it doesn't necessarily mean that's who they are.
But that's not what was presented here, so to me, it's a no-brainer kind of thing. No bleepin way. Bridges fully burned.
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Post by Rooster on Mar 9, 2015 12:20:35 GMT -6
That white spot on top of chicken {censored}. Its chicken {censored} too....
Rooster
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Post by s73 on Mar 9, 2015 21:41:37 GMT -6
My question is this: If the shoe was on the other foot then does the former coordinator hire the new guy? If you think the answer is no then I think that is probably the correct answer for this scenario as well. JMO.
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Post by hercsdc on Mar 26, 2015 9:41:54 GMT -6
I t sounds like there is way too much turmoil within that staff to begin with. Either 1)Don't hire the new DC as HC and go look for an outside hire, or 2)If he is hired as HC, he needs to let those "cancers" go and hire his own staff.
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Post by spos21ram on Mar 27, 2015 8:28:24 GMT -6
I have a story that is similar to the situation the OP has described. Side Note: I was promoted to Head Baseball coach at our HS. I had been the middle school HC for the previous 8 years. Sorry this isn't football, but we are talking staff cohesion here, the sport doesn't matter.
So you have me. Alum of the high school, was all division jr&sr year, won a division championship, blah blah....I was the MS HC for 8 years as stated, been coaching football at the HS for 9 years...The previous HS Baseball HC retired at the end of the season. We all knew it was coming. So the last 2 years at the MS my assistant was someone I have known a long time. We have not always seen eye to eye on things during football season, but for the most part I'd say we are friends. He was an assistant football coach when I was playing there, he also started to get into coaching baseball as an assistant about 8 years ago. He was the HS Baseball assistant coach for 3 years while I was the MS HC. About 5 years ago, he got into an argument with the AD where he said he was done coaching. He said it not thinking about the possible fallout. The AD would not allow him back to coaching for 3 years. 2 years ago the AD allowed him to become my MS assistant to start fresh and put everything behind him. For the 2 years he was my assistant, he was great, we worked very well together and had a very successful season last year winning our division.
So everyone knows the HS job was open and he wanted this job so so bad. It was like life or death for him it seemed like and once he found out I was applying also, he wouldn't talk to me, acted like a little child, I heard he was badmouthing me a little bit behind my back to anyone that would listen when the job came up in conversation. For some reason this guy had it branded in his brain that the job was his. I have no clue why he would think that. I knew my lack of HS baseball coaching experience was a knock on me so I knew there was a chance I wouldn't get it depending on who the other applicants were. Well there were 3 applicants. Myself, him, and a HC of a very small school from a couple towns over. I ended up getting the job. I'm usually subpar in interviews, but I was very prepared and I have a lot of passion for this job. The school is very rich in baseball history and many of my family members have played there. So now I was at a crossroads. Do I hire this guy as my assistant? We worked extremely well together the last 2 years at the MS level. I had no problems with him. So I know what he can do as a coach. He loves the game and loves to coach. But I had trust issues. I know he was talking behind my back saying I had no experience among other things. I ended up hiring him and my other MS assistant as my HS assistants. We are only 3 weeks in, but it seems like he has put the whole thing passed him. Everything has been great so far. I knew this could have been a potential disaster, but I went on how successful we worked together the past 2 years. My opinion about this may change by the end of the year, but right now everything seems rosey.
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Post by coachwoodall on Mar 27, 2015 19:11:10 GMT -6
I have a story that is similar to the situation the OP has described. Side Note: I was promoted to Head Baseball coach at our HS. I had been the middle school HC for the previous 8 years. Sorry this isn't football, but we are talking staff cohesion here, the sport doesn't matter. So you have me. Alum of the high school, was all division jr&sr year, won a division championship, blah blah....I was the MS HC for 8 years as stated, been coaching football at the HS for 9 years...The previous HS Baseball HC retired at the end of the season. We all knew it was coming. So the last 2 years at the MS my assistant was someone I have known a long time. We have not always seen eye to eye on things during football season, but for the most part I'd say we are friends. He was an assistant football coach when I was playing there, he also started to get into coaching baseball as an assistant about 8 years ago. He was the HS Baseball assistant coach for 3 years while I was the MS HC. About 5 years ago, he got into an argument with the AD where he said he was done coaching. He said it not thinking about the possible fallout. The AD would not allow him back to coaching for 3 years. 2 years ago the AD allowed him to become my MS assistant to start fresh and put everything behind him. For the 2 years he was my assistant, he was great, we worked very well together and had a very successful season last year winning our division. So everyone knows the HS job was open and he wanted this job so so bad. It was like life or death for him it seemed like and once he found out I was applying also, he wouldn't talk to me, acted like a little child, I heard he was badmouthing me a little bit behind my back to anyone that would listen when the job came up in conversation. For some reason this guy had it branded in his brain that the job was his. I have no clue why he would think that. I knew my lack of HS baseball coaching experience was a knock on me so I knew there was a chance I wouldn't get it depending on who the other applicants were. Well there were 3 applicants. Myself, him, and a HC of a very small school from a couple towns over. I ended up getting the job. I'm usually subpar in interviews, but I was very prepared and I have a lot of passion for this job. The school is very rich in baseball history and many of my family members have played there. So now I was at a crossroads. Do I hire this guy as my assistant? We worked extremely well together the last 2 years at the MS level. I had no problems with him. So I know what he can do as a coach. He loves the game and loves to coach. But I had trust issues. I know he was talking behind my back saying I had no experience among other things. I ended up hiring him and my other MS assistant as my HS assistants. We are only 3 weeks in, but it seems like he has put the whole thing passed him. Everything has been great so far. I knew this could have been a potential disaster, but I went on how successful we worked together the past 2 years. My opinion about this may change by the end of the year, but right now everything seems rosey. Like my grandpappy said, "Folks boil tea to make it hot, they add ice to make it cold, they add sugar to make it sweet, they add lemon to make it sour; they don't know what they want." As long as you know what you want and how your want it done, everyone else will just have to fall in line or get off the ship.
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