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Post by Defcord on Sept 3, 2015 5:58:06 GMT -6
The previous school I coached was a small school but tops in the section. Our philosophy was you have to play us for a half. Obviously based on the skills set of the other team we would change our play calling as the half progressed. However, that being said, if you are gonna leave your starting offense on the field and throw fades against a DB that doesnt really belong on the field, I will put my starting offense on the field throw a fade then go for 2 to prove a point. And what if they blitz and blow out your starting QBs knee and he is done for the season? Was the point you made worth it?
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pistola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 193
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Post by pistola on Sept 3, 2015 10:41:08 GMT -6
The previous school I coached was a small school but tops in the section. Our philosophy was you have to play us for a half. Obviously based on the skills set of the other team we would change our play calling as the half progressed. However, that being said, if you are gonna leave your starting offense on the field and throw fades against a DB that doesnt really belong on the field, I will put my starting offense on the field throw a fade then go for 2 to prove a point. ooh, and what point would that be exactly??
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Post by John Knight on Sept 3, 2015 11:19:38 GMT -6
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Post by coachmonkey on Sept 3, 2015 11:40:08 GMT -6
When you are on the winning side of things and there is nothing left to prove (I'm talking 40-50+ lead by halftime)... When do decide to go to nothing but 2's and 3's? How do you deal with seniors that feel that are 'entitled' to play more in these types of games because they've earned it? Our goal is not to win by 50+, but to win conference, or state etc. Our goal's are bigger than this one game.
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Post by coachtua on Sept 4, 2015 2:52:26 GMT -6
SORRY COACHES...My younger brother was on my computer and added that last sentence. Idiot. I have never done that.
We have put our starting defense back on the field when teams have scored too many points to be comfortable, even sometimes left our starting defense on the field and slowly rotated DL and LBs out of the game or until the other team just started running the ball to eat up the clock...
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 5, 2015 2:28:38 GMT -6
SORRY COACHES...My younger brother was on my computer and added that last sentence. Idiot. I have never done that. We have put our starting defense back on the field when teams have scored too many points to be comfortable, even sometimes left our starting defense on the field and slowly rotated DL and LBs out of the game or until the other team just started running the ball to eat up the clock... Oh no, your brother is spot on. If you can't take the peace offering; I'm going to throw the fade, go for 2, AND onside kick.
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pistola
Sophomore Member
Posts: 193
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Post by pistola on Sept 6, 2015 21:15:57 GMT -6
SORRY COACHES...My younger brother was on my computer and added that last sentence. Idiot. I have never done that. We have put our starting defense back on the field when teams have scored too many points to be comfortable, even sometimes left our starting defense on the field and slowly rotated DL and LBs out of the game or until the other team just started running the ball to eat up the clock... Oh no, your brother is spot on. If you can't take the peace offering; I'm going to throw the fade, go for 2, AND onside kick. YAA!! NOW WE TALKIN!!!!
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Post by hunhdisciple on Sept 7, 2015 7:29:50 GMT -6
The previous school I coached was a small school but tops in the section. Our philosophy was you have to play us for a half. Obviously based on the skills set of the other team we would change our play calling as the half progressed. However, that being said, if you are gonna leave your starting offense on the field and throw fades against a DB that doesnt really belong on the field, I will put my starting offense on the field throw a fade then go for 2 to prove a point. I've seen a few people do this. Get up by a running clock, and you put in a few kids here and there, just to give them a life memory. And they decide to chuck it at the obviously weak spot. Obviously it scores. But at the end of the day, everybody knows the opposing coach is a jerk for doing it. If he doesn't want to pull punches, he doesn't have to. But in that situation, I still get to put down a W and he doesn't. But, if my subs are in and we are up by a bunch, I will throw it just to get someone an attempt at stats. If getting the kid in foster care a TD is wrong, then I'll be wrong all day. Giving the younger guys something to build on besides run-run-run-punt is huge to future success.
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Post by blb on Sept 7, 2015 7:55:19 GMT -6
It can be difficult when you have the game in hand and the other guy doesn't "surrender," or worse, leaves his starters in apparently to run up their stats and blitz your back-ups into turnovers or at least embarrassment.
It's unethical or unprofessional behavior. I think some coaches don't know any better, they somehow think (rationalize?) they're continuing to "coach" even though the game has been decided and teach their players never to give up.
It can be difficult to resist the urge to retaliate but you must do what is best for your team, which should be playing as many kids as much time as possible.
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Post by coachbdud on Sept 7, 2015 8:25:42 GMT -6
Having been on the other side of plenty of butt whippings
Yes I'd choose to leave my starters in, not to embarrass anyone or run up stats but just to have a tiny bit of success to build for the future
I've coached on some BAD teams, where the other guys' backups are equal to our starters
Our starters getting one into the end zone was an achievement
Didn't matter if it was against their powderpuff team
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 7, 2015 12:45:40 GMT -6
I have no problem with you throwing on my scrubbeanies, but how about working on flat/curl or mesh? Goal line fade? No problem.
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Post by blb on Sept 7, 2015 13:01:03 GMT -6
Tough to keep those down-the-line kids coming back much less practicing hard when they think they won't even get into blowouts.
I've posted it before - some time we football coaches are our own worst enemies.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Sept 8, 2015 10:36:30 GMT -6
I've had a run-in with a fellow coach of mine over this very thing- we were up 28+ going into the 4th and we sub the best we can. We have the ball on offense and they are blitzing out of a 5-3 Double Eagle. What am I supposed to do- run my RB into the teeth of their defense? No way- we ran 3 step, dumped it to the flat and our kid got the first down.
I heard about this play from this dude for the next year...how unethical it is to throw when up like that...I tried to explain but he didn't want to hear it.
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Post by stilllearning on Oct 4, 2016 11:43:33 GMT -6
We're having this problem for the first time this year (that's the good news)
Our JV defense is pretty small/young and the teams in our area never sub down losing big. Our varsity defense is getting pretty upset about the 2-3 garbage time TDs we're giving up most weeks after they leave. We also had at least 1 injury to a younger kid that was trying to play against varsity players. My first instinct is to push for our starters to play longer if the other team is going to play starters, but the problems we have are 1. obviously not deep enough to withstand injuries to starters and 2. the other big boys in the area don't care and have allowed teams to play them this way for years so we'd look like jerks if we played starters and won by 70.
There are SOME advantages to this... like that we can show real film to our JV defense with them against varsity players trying to score. They are scoring at an alarming rate though which affects confidence of JV players IMO.
Long-term, we'd like to improve the schedule to have fewer games like this and build up the depth so our JV could run against a bad varsity. In the short term though, those can't be fixed overnight and we just recently got this good at the varsity level.
Mostly I'm sure the responses will be the same as this whole thread, but how much would you factor it in if your JV was getting abused by opposing varsity once killing them and subbed down?
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Post by bigmoot on Oct 4, 2016 11:56:49 GMT -6
This year...I'll leave my 1s in when getting blown out. My 1s are a bunch of 9th and 10th graders anyway. They need reps. When the opponent puts his 9th and 10th in, its an equal game. I will start to get "everybody" in with about 5 minutes left.
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Post by carookie on Oct 4, 2016 12:36:20 GMT -6
In general, if up say 50 at the half, I like to give my #1s the first series of the 2nd half. This is both a reward for their effort, and my way of just making sure that we got things secure.
Although there are times when I've had them out earlier or later based on other factors. Had a playoff game a few years back where we were up by over 50 in the 1st qtr; I had no need to keep my starters in there and risk an injury so they were out mid way through the 2nd qtr.
Conversely, there have been times where we had a few blowout opponents in a row, I wanted my #1s to get a little extra game situation so I left them in longer.
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Post by Wingtman on Oct 4, 2016 12:44:05 GMT -6
My kids are the fricken worst! They are like sharks when they smell blood in the water, asking/begging to go in. However when its their blood in the water? Can't find a single one who want's any part of it.
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Post by stilllearning on Oct 4, 2016 12:55:38 GMT -6
In general, if up say 50 at the half, I like to give my #1s the first series of the 2nd half. This is both a reward for their effort, and my way of just making sure that we got things secure. Although there are times when I've had them out earlier or later based on other factors. Had a playoff game a few years back where we were up by over 50 in the 1st qtr; I had no need to keep my starters in there and risk an injury so they were out mid way through the 2nd qtr. Conversely, there have been times where we had a few blowout opponents in a row, I wanted my #1s to get a little extra game situation so I left them in longer. Let's say you're up 50-0 and take them out after 1st series of 3rd quarter, like you said. Does your varsity throw a fit when the final score is 50-28? Or does your JV take care of business so you don't even know?
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Post by coachcb on Oct 4, 2016 13:08:54 GMT -6
We used to have a hard, fast rule for this: if we're up by three scores or more at half, then we sub in the second string unit. However, we had a season where we were up by three+ scores at half in eight of ten regular seasons games. We hit a serious road bump in the play-offs as our varsity guys had only play two full games all year.The first round game was against a tough team we hadn't seen yet and we struggled: the guys were gassed by the fourth quarter. Never under-estimate the amount of real-time conditioning a unit gets during a game.
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
Just here to learn the facemelter
Posts: 412
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Post by SconnieOC on Oct 4, 2016 13:24:21 GMT -6
We had this problem last year. Up 49-7 after the first possession of the 3rd quarter. We went mass subs and they didn't. Back up QBs fumbled twice, backup KOR guy brought a ball out of the end zone and fumbled, we recovered but had the ball on the 3, shanked a punt and they got it at the 35. Final ended up being 49-39, and no one was happy. We were a young team playing a bunch of fresh/soph guys against their seniors and it showed. They were chucking it like crazy on our freshman DB's and we were warming up the starters again just to finish out the game.
This year in a similar situation, we waited a little bit longer to put the 2nd/3rd group in. We did have a 12 play drive to score with our 2nd Oline so I was pretty psyched.
Obviously every situation is different. If you're really bad with JV guys.. I see no reason to get them in as soon as possible. We coach a game where crazy things can happen. Make sure they get reps but it doesn't have to be 80% of the second half.
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Post by carookie on Oct 4, 2016 13:37:08 GMT -6
In general, if up say 50 at the half, I like to give my #1s the first series of the 2nd half. This is both a reward for their effort, and my way of just making sure that we got things secure. Although there are times when I've had them out earlier or later based on other factors. Had a playoff game a few years back where we were up by over 50 in the 1st qtr; I had no need to keep my starters in there and risk an injury so they were out mid way through the 2nd qtr. Conversely, there have been times where we had a few blowout opponents in a row, I wanted my #1s to get a little extra game situation so I left them in longer. Let's say you're up 50-0 and take them out after 1st series of 3rd quarter, like you said. Does your varsity throw a fit when the final score is 50-28? Or does your JV take care of business so you don't even know? For the most part, if my #1s were up 50-0 my #2s probably won't give up 4 TDs unanswered in 20 minutes. For certain there is a drop off between 1s and 2s, but I have not had a situation as drastic where the opposition scored 28 unanswered.I think at the very worst the #2s give up a td or two, but probably get one themselves, so 50-0 ends up 57-14. Now are the #1s upset when that first score is given up? Yeah. Are they begging to get in when the opposition gets in the red zone and threatens the shutout? Absolutely. But I've never had anyone 'throw a fit' or get overly upset; and if they did I would just tell them to 'shut up' and help the young guys develop. Usually, the go to saying to the starters is, "they supported you when you were out there, so you do the same for them." What I have seen for the most part are the starters are ultra supportive of the backups when they get in, will cheer them on and help coach them up.
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Post by rosey65 on Oct 5, 2016 6:26:33 GMT -6
I never made wholesale changes, especially on defense. I almost always rotated some starters (or veteran 2's) along with some subs. I didn't want the subs to feel like they were on an island by themselves. A veteran player gives them some security and can help them when needed. I was always careful about doing the same thing with my o-line. I didn't want the backup QB to get murdered because a reserve lineman didn't know his assignment (this could happen on any given play, understood). If it was possible, I always tried to sub without the team on the field looking like subs. Yup!! We dont have much depth, so rotating any more than 2 or 3 guys in on either side of the ball really makes things scary. We rarely do a wholesale sub with our defense, but we do offensively if/when we go running clock. Our offense is usually lucky to get more than 1 series at that point, since the backups on defense dont really get much done. Depending on the number of backups, they get some to minimal PT even in big blowouts.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 5, 2016 8:12:12 GMT -6
SORRY COACHES...My younger brother was on my computer and added that last sentence. Idiot. I have never done that. We have put our starting defense back on the field when teams have scored too many points to be comfortable, even sometimes left our starting defense on the field and slowly rotated DL and LBs out of the game or until the other team just started running the ball to eat up the clock... Oh no, your brother is spot on. If you can't take the peace offering; I'm going to throw the fade, go for 2, AND onside kick. We won't go for two or onside kick but we'll call offensive plays according to what we're seeing. If the defensive starters are in against our subs and you're coming with six every down, you can expect us to start chucking it around. I've told this story on the boards a dozen times but it's relevant and funny. I was coaching a youth league team one year and we were blowing a team out by four+ scores at half time. We plugged in our second and third string for the second half but the dipchit across from us left his starters in and came after us with 8-man blitzes (total Madden bullchit). So, I called a PA screen to our chubby little, Truffle-Shuffle third string FB/guard. He waddled like 70 yards down the field for the score. It took that kid like a full minute to make that trek and he about passed out at the goal-line. The opposing coach lost it on me after the game and I told him that we'd see him again in the play-offs and that I hoped he learned his lesson by then. He didn't and our second and third string WRs caught fades for TDs in tthe fourth quarter. Some folks disagree with me on this but I wasn't about to run our base series (Buck and Belly/Down) into an 8-man blitz by his starters. That's just asking for one of our little guys to get hurt.
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Post by cfoott on Oct 5, 2016 8:30:47 GMT -6
We give our starters the first series coming out from the half. We don't want them to feel like only need to play a half of football. Then we start rotating in 2nd and 3rd string players. The issue of "Entitlement" sounds like a deeper issue. They might not understand that in order for you to be the best possible team, that those players under them need live reps. We have a philosophy that "Everyone Eats." Whether you're a starting sophomore or a 3rd string senior, if the game is in hand then we rotate. It's the starters job to put the game away so that the other can come in. It the jobs of those that go in later to maintain the the lead by playing well and getting better.
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