baseball kids and % committment

[coach2013]

We have some baseball kids who are pressured to play fallball instead of football.

some of them are better football players than baseball players but they believe that they can play college baseball easier.

That's for another thread.

I have decided to start getting a "commitment score" from them in the off season to help my staff plan and prepare.

I have one big kid who should be a starting offensive lineman for us, whos only 75% committed to coming back to football this year and it depends largely on how he is utilized during the varsity spring baseball season.

Curious as to what others in small schools are doing to cope with this issue.

[shocktroop34]

Coach-Just need a little insight on a "commitment score." These are verbal commitments I take it? I assume you're just trying to gauge who is in/out for the Fall.

A few years back, I had two QB's who were competing for the starting spots. They were both big into baseball and played through the spring AND summer.

Long story short, they worked out a schedule of when they could be at football, and I knew every date when they were playing baseball.

I knew they were committed kids. Would I have liked to have seen them more? Of course. But like many other responses to threads we read here, I just worked with the kids who were there and rolled with the punches. I don't think it affected our play once the season rolled around.

BTW, one of those kids made it to the minors.

[coach2013]

Background:

Big kid, played football as a freshman
Missed soph season (I believe he was promised a varsity spot as soph)
I believe he is going to see if the promise will be kept before he makes his decision regarding football.

I just want to know when he makes up his mind, in or out asap as it will impact our depth chart unfortunately.

[coachcb]

We had this very same issue when I first started coaching and it infuriated me.

We had an excellent sophomore TB (also a NATIONAL champion AAU wrestler) who ditched all sports but baseball because the Legion coaches were filling his head with tall-tales of full ride scholarships to D1 schools and the possibility of being drafted by MLB right out of high school. Absolute bullchit. The kid ended up with a full ride scholarship to a tiny NAIA school, played there for two years and dropped out. I talked to him via Facebook awhile back and he said that quitting football and wrestling were the biggest mistakes of his life. But, mom and dad bought into the coaches' chit too so there wasn't much we could do as a staff.

Personally, I would ditch quantifying the situation and just plan on the kid not playing football. The only proactive thing you could do is try to sit down with the kid and his parents and have a tactful talk about why specialization is terrible thing in sports. You don't need trash the baseball coaches (I know, it's hard, I did it..) but you can make it clear to mom, dad, and the player that you're happy that he enjoys baseball so much and gets so much out of spring/summer ball. But, you can point out that a) football is fun too and that the kid has a bright future within the program, b) that playing fall baseball in no way guarantees any post HS play, whatsoever and c) that there's the very real possibility that he'll get burned out on baseball in a hurry because he'll be playing it year round.

I'll be blunt; I friggin' HATE most of the Legion baseball coaches around this state for this very reason. They have pulling this same kind of crap for years and it's so selfish and short-sided. I would never ask a kid to give up another sport so they could focus solely on football.

[CoachMikeJudy]

We work with the kid to make football work for them. Have a BB kid who has played AAU for years. He's 5'8 guard, wide receiver for us. Kid is a stud football player, raw as can be, and could get money to play. Finally came out for football his junior year and lit it up.

All his life his BB/AAU coaches have been telling him he's a college basketball player- to this day there has been 0 interest in him for BB D3 or higher. He is one our most highly recruitable kids in football now and will likely get money to play. We worked around his AAU schedule to get him whenever we could. Eventually he realized that BB was limited for him but FB could be a great thing for him. And we were not aggressive AT ALL with him- let him come to the conclusion. The only thing I did was show him the BB signees sizes and the roster of our local D3 to show they have no room for a 5'8 kid, but showed him the rosters of the regional FCS schools and they ALL have a 5'8 WR listed...he made a good decision of making football a priority.

Those baseball guys you are speaking of- are they legit money football kids?

[coachcb]

Feb 11, 2016 10:35:12 GMT -6 CoachMikeJudy said:

We work with the kid to make football work for them. Have a BB kid who has played AAU for years. He's 5'8 guard, wide receiver for us. Kid is a stud football player, raw as can be, and could get money to play. Finally came out for football his junior year and lit it up.

All his life his BB/AAU coaches have been telling him he's a college basketball player- to this day there has been 0 interest in him for BB D3 or higher. He is one our most highly recruitable kids in football now and will likely get money to play. We worked around his AAU schedule to get him whenever we could. Eventually he realized that BB was limited for him but FB could be a great thing for him. And we were not aggressive AT ALL with him- let him come to the conclusion. The only thing I did was show him the BB signees sizes and the roster of our local D3 to show they have no room for a 5'8 kid, but showed him the rosters of the regional FCS schools and they ALL have a 5'8 WR listed...he made a good decision of making football a priority.

Those baseball guys you are speaking of- are they legit money football kids?

 You nailed it coach. Kids and parents need to make their own decisions with this crap.

In my first HC gig, we had several kids quit football because they "didn't want to get hurt for basketball". We won a few a games, football was suddenly exciting in the school again and several of them came back out the next year.

And, although the question wasn't aimed at me, the stud that quit football and wrestling for baseball certainly had more of a future in the other two sports. He was getting varsity turns as a sophomore and won a state wrestling title the same year. He could have played D2 ball in football or, more likely, wrestled for a big time D1 school but he LOVED baseball. He said he was really burned out on wrestling because he'd been doing it since he was five years old and I completely understood that. And, I told him many times that I understood how much he loved baseball. But, he had only been playing football since his 8th grade year, he said he really enjoyed it and was always happy around the game so I didn't get it. I know one Legion coach had been working with him for years and was absolutely pumping him full of crap so I guess that was the deciding factor...

[spos21ram]

I coach both sports...Baseball HC and Asst. Football. I've always been in favor of kids playing multiple sports.

There seems to be some double standards or bias from us football coaches though. I see threads on here about kids playing spring AAU basketball or baseball and how it hurts their spring football practice etc. Seems like it's ok if all our football kids are 100% football all year round, but when it's not football and they wanna do something else we get our panties in a bunch.

In these situations give the kid all the info you can then let him decide.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards

[coach2013]

This isn't a case of us making baseball work for him, its a case of baseball making football work. If he is playing fall ball he isn't playing football. we certainly do not expect him to choose not to play baseball and we never ask our kids to give up other sports. I can only say that other coaches are not quite as accommodating as we have been.

[blockdownkickout]

In my experience multiple sport kids have one sport that is "their sport." If there is a kid that is a baseball first or basketball first kid then I sit down with them and figure out what is the requirements of the first sport and then where football can fit in. Then I have something to hold them to. For example we had a baseball kid last year that was our back up QB. He's a good pitcher and told me he had a lot of baseball all summer. I asked if he could be in the weight room twice a week and make it to most 7 on 7 events. He said yes. So that was the schedule he was on. Unfortunately he still decided to not come to much in the summer and then not play. But at least we all knew the expectations.

[barlow]

Feb 11, 2016 11:28:43 GMT -6 spos21ram said:

I coach both sports...Baseball HC and Asst. Football. I've always been in favor of kids playing multiple sports.

There seems to be some double standards or bias from us football coaches though. I see threads on here about kids playing spring AAU basketball or baseball and how it hurts their spring football practice etc. Seems like it's ok if all our football kids are 100% football all year round, but when it's not football and they wanna do something else we get our panties in a bunch.

In these situations give the kid all the info you can then let him decide.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards

Coach that's far more the exception than rule. Any "good" football teams and coaches know athletes are athletes, they
can and should be competing in every sport they can join.

The distinction you are missing is that missing "in-season" sports for clubs is what bothers good coaches. Spring football is categorically "in season" not a
club event.

It's frustrating because football is probably the most demanding team sport as far as group coordination. If one or two guys are out of sync that play is almost always disaster. The kids that miss are further behind in that race. And at least for teams ive coached, spring ball is a BIG install period its not like we just make up stuff to do its planned for that phase to be when plays are put in and fundamentals are deeply honed.

[coach2013]

I see some guys are missing the point completely. We are not talking about figuring it out, we are talking about if the kid plays football AT ALL.

He could decide to play football and that's all I need to hear, I wouldn't be upset that he misses the entire off season of lifting because of baseball, id be more upset to hear that he just chooses not to play football at all. he is the biggest kid in this school.

[cwaltsmith]

Feb 11, 2016 12:12:11 GMT -6 coach2013 said:

I see some guys are missing the point completely. We are not talking about figuring it out, we are talking about if the kid plays football AT ALL.

He could decide to play football and that's all I need to hear, I wouldn't be upset that he misses the entire off season of lifting because of baseball, id be more upset to hear that he just chooses not to play football at all. he is the biggest kid in this school.

Coach its been my experience that if you make a kid make a decision, he will most times go with the crowd or whatever season it is at the time.  If your not worried about him making you offseason then what does it matter.  Your not gonna win a single game by writing his or someone elses name on a board.   I understand you want him to play, but regardless of what he tells you now ... August is a long way away and he could change 15 times between now and then.

[barlow]

Feb 11, 2016 12:12:11 GMT -6 coach2013 said:

I see some guys are missing the point completely. We are not talking about figuring it out, we are talking about if the kid plays football AT ALL.

He could decide to play football and that's all I need to hear, I wouldn't be upset that he misses the entire off season of lifting because of baseball, id be more upset to hear that he just chooses not to play football at all. he is the biggest kid in this school.

To your question coach as a smaller school, during any in-season outside of ours we leave them alone, we expect the same standard from other sports. During our season missing any days of the game week for something not family issue, sickness, or academic is unacceptable. If they practice after ours and play on saturdays we don't care that's their free time. Be royally pissed to have them come up injured doing another sport during our season though ill admit that.

[blb]

I empathize with your situation, 2013, but other than encouraging the kid to play Football and being supportive of Baseball, I don't know that there's much you can do about it.

He'll either choose to play for you, or not.

Is it your school's coach doing the pressuring to play Fall Baseball? If so you could have a man-to-man about necessity of sharing athletes in a small school. If you're not satisfied then, you could go to AD about the issue.

[CanyonCoach]

An NAIA coach said this to me after his recruiting class was signed:

We will put kids on the depth chart when they walk in the door in August. I think HS is pretty much the same in our area. We work our tails off to get kids to weights and 7 on 7 and team camps but until they show up in august they aren't on the depth chart.

We work well with the other programs in the last 4 years. We do the best we can to work with kids best interest in mind and provide clear parameters as to what gets them on the filed and what doesn't allow them on the team.

[coach2013]

Feb 11, 2016 12:45:41 GMT -6 CanyonCoach said:

An NAIA coach said this to me after his recruiting class was signed:

We will put kids on the depth chart when they walk in the door in August. I think HS is pretty much the same in our area. We work our tails off to get kids to weights and 7 on 7 and team camps but until they show up in august they aren't on the depth chart.

We work well with the other programs in the last 4 years. We do the best we can to work with kids best interest in mind and provide clear parameters as to what gets them on the filed and what doesn't allow them on the team.

This is exactly the philosophy we are taking. Its just too early and this is why I asked the young man to let me know if he feels like his chances of committing to the season get better or worse.  I explained to him why it was important for me to know his plans. hes a likeable young man who is getting a lot of pressure at home and from his bb coach obviously.

[PSS]

Feb 11, 2016 11:28:43 GMT -6 spos21ram said:

I coach both sports...Baseball HC and Asst. Football. I've always been in favor of kids playing multiple sports.

There seems to be some double standards or bias from us football coaches though. I see threads on here about kids playing spring AAU basketball or baseball and how it hurts their spring football practice etc. Seems like it's ok if all our football kids are 100% football all year round, but when it's not football and they wanna do something else we get our panties in a bunch.

In these situations give the kid all the info you can then let him decide.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards

Are they still are part of the FB team?  Shouldn't they lift with just like their other FB team mates?  What will kill an athletic program faster than anything else is where you start to divide into different sports and coaches not work together to have a great athletic program where every sport has the opportunity to win.

If you're a FB/BSB player you still lift with your FB team mates but practice and play BSB after school with your BSB team.  Or better yet, you have both teams lift together.  If they work together then they each team is more likely to support each other.  The athletic program has to have a family atmosphere just as the individual sport does.

I am also the head boys' track coach.  Because we promote family within our athletic program I have not only football but I have basketball and baseball players that participate.  It takes the entire program working together not against.

[coachcb]

Feb 11, 2016 11:28:43 GMT -6 spos21ram said:

I coach both sports...Baseball HC and Asst. Football. I've always been in favor of kids playing multiple sports.

There seems to be some double standards or bias from us football coaches though. I see threads on here about kids playing spring AAU basketball or baseball and how it hurts their spring football practice etc. Seems like it's ok if all our football kids are 100% football all year round, but when it's not football and they wanna do something else we get our panties in a bunch.

In these situations give the kid all the info you can then let him decide.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards

I hear you coach, there are many football coaches out there that get bent out of shape over missing weights, camps, 7-7, etc..

But, I don't believe that this is a "football issue"; it's an issue in all sports these days. There is a huge push for specialization from many coaches, in many sports, around the country. I've seen many successful programs in other sports where it is basically demanded that the kids specialize.

A perfect example is a local volleyball team that has won the state title ten times out of the last twelve years. Their staff expects that those girls plays volleyball in the fall, lift and do "open gyms" in the winter and participate in their traveling AAU volleyball program in the spring and summer. The girls, the school and the community have bought into this in a big way as the team has had so much success. A close friend of mine is the head track coach for the school and spring volleyball drives him insane because he can barely field a girl's track team. Hell, the girls that get cut from the high school team STILL do spring volleyball, trying to get a spot in the fall.

But, this is another reason why I love coaching the throwers in track so much. I just need a few kids that enjoy shot and discus enough to hit the weights in the off-season and throw in the spring and it's a good time. Yes, there's a team aspect to it but it's still an individual sport so we can all get some satisfaction out of watching our handful of kids compete and do well.

[hsrose]

Problem I have is the baseball coach is the AD. He tells the kids they have to play summer baseball for him, traveling team not affiliated with the school, if they want to have a chance to play in the spring. So they go to summer baseball. The kids are making a choice which is fine, I want them to play multiple sports, but it's the AD knowingly pulling kids from football and basketball for a non-school team that irks me a bit.

The basketball coach told a kid that showed up in the football weight room this morning that it was ok for him to come to the football weight program. He's been telling his players not to come to the football workouts but instead lift with the team during his practices. The kid tells me he is not going to play football, good sized sophomore, would likely help, but he's coming to our weights because his coach said it was ok. I've never talked with the coach.

Last year I stepped on my crank by scheduling summer workouts for 5-7 PM. That was basketball (AAU) and baseball time, I guess they had had this arrangement for several years. I was not aware of any arrangement. None of my staff were teachers and we all worked days so the PM was the only real time we could get together for practice (weights, running/agilities, 7-7's). You would have thought I had tossed a kitten onto the freeway, I had kids calling, I had parents calling, but not a word from the other coaches. I even offered to have the basketball players condition and lift with us so he wouldn't have to do it during his practice times and he turned that down. So the players that did basketball and football ended up lifting and conditioning twice each day 2 days per week. I didn't find out about the basketball conditioning until late in the summer when the guys were getting really worn out.

At a previous school we had 3 senior starters miss 3 days of double-days to attend a baseball tournament. Not part of the school, not part of the area, it was a traveling team from 15 miles away. That's when I heard the HC make the statement that 'if they're not wearing the school uniform, it's Little League'.

Last year I told the players that 'I don't care'. I don't care why you are not here, you missed a workout and Johnny got better today and you didn't. I'm sorry you missed because of a dentist appointment, but your mom thought that it couldn't be rescheduled and Bobby got your reps today. I'm sorry that you missed 2 days of fall practice to go to a baseball camp, but you weren't here when we installed the Facemelter 34 Zone Power and Timmy got the reps so he knows what to do and you don't. Makes life a lot easier when you tell them that.

[lochness]

Our state athletic association has a policy that says if you miss a school athletic event(in-season...not off season) in favor of a non-school event (AAU, CYO, whateverthehell) then you are suspended for two games. You may want to look at your state's athletics rules.

If specialization is indeed the push, then football will die slowly in smaller areas (especially with all the other pressures). It's much easier to get a baseball or lacrosse offer for a small school kid than a football scholarship.

[fantom]

Feb 11, 2016 16:04:47 GMT -6 lochness said:

Our state athletic association has a policy that says if you miss a school athletic event(in-season...not off season) in favor of a non-school event (AAU, CYO, whateverthehell) then you are suspended for two games. You may want to look at your state's athletics rules.

If specialization is indeed the push, then football will die slowly in smaller areas (especially with all the other pressures). It's much easier to get a baseball or lacrosse offer for a small school kid than a football scholarship.

I've never coached at a small school but it seems to me that most baseball offers are partials at best. 

[lochness]

Feb 11, 2016 17:30:16 GMT -6 fantom said:

Feb 11, 2016 16:04:47 GMT -6 lochness said:

Our state athletic association has a policy that says if you miss a school athletic event(in-season...not off season) in favor of a non-school event (AAU, CYO, whateverthehell) then you are suspended for two games. You may want to look at your state's athletics rules.

If specialization is indeed the push, then football will die slowly in smaller areas (especially with all the other pressures). It's much easier to get a baseball or lacrosse offer for a small school kid than a football scholarship.

I've never coached at a small school but it seems to me that most baseball offers are partials at best. 

You know that and I know that...but the families are the ones who matter. 

[cookiemonster]

Talk to your Baseball/AD coach about helping keep the kids out for Football. If he won't help he isnt fufilling his AD duties and should be removed. I would handle him administratively so you protect yourself.

[fantom]

Feb 14, 2016 19:29:01 GMT -6 cookiemonster said:

Talk to your Baseball/AD coach about helping keep the kids out for Football. If he won't help he isnt fufilling his AD duties and should be removed. I would handle him administratively so you protect yourself.

Even if he wants to be helpful how's he supposed to get kids to play if they don't want to?

[cookiemonster]

I was approached by our basketball coaches 2 years ago and they asked if I would help them get a few guys out to play basketball. The relationship I have with the kids was what helped me get them out. I sold them on the fact that they are Bulldogs not Football, basketball, or baseball guys and they responded positively. I think if the baseball coach can get them to do things in other areas he can get them to help the football team out. The football program is a part of his evaluation period.

[fantom]

Feb 15, 2016 20:51:19 GMT -6 cookiemonster said:

The football program is a part of his evaluation period.

I have  problem with that. I certainly think that coaches should work together and encourage their kids to play other sports but this idea doesn't seem fair to me. 

[IronmanFootball]

Feb 11, 2016 8:11:02 GMT -6 coach2013 said:

We have some baseball kids who are pressured to play fallball instead of football.

some of them are better football players than baseball players but they believe that they can play college baseball easier.

That's for another thread.

I have decided to start getting a "commitment score" from them in the off season to help my staff plan and prepare.

I have one big kid who should be a starting offensive lineman for us, whos only 75% committed to coming back to football this year and it depends largely on how he is utilized during the varsity spring baseball season.

Curious as to what others in small schools are doing to cope with this issue.

Coach- I sat down with our baseball coach and explained that no baseball kid would be allowed to be doing football workouts once baseball conditioning started (Jan) just like I expect them back for spring football in late April and to not be coaxed into skills camps and fall ball. That immediate (I approached him his first day) "this is how we can work together" paid off. 

[CoachMikeJudy]

Feb 16, 2016 7:05:46 GMT -6 IronmanFootball said:

Feb 11, 2016 8:11:02 GMT -6 coach2013 said:

We have some baseball kids who are pressured to play fallball instead of football.

some of them are better football players than baseball players but they believe that they can play college baseball easier.

That's for another thread.

I have decided to start getting a "commitment score" from them in the off season to help my staff plan and prepare.

I have one big kid who should be a starting offensive lineman for us, whos only 75% committed to coming back to football this year and it depends largely on how he is utilized during the varsity spring baseball season.

Curious as to what others in small schools are doing to cope with this issue.

Coach- I sat down with our baseball coach and explained that no baseball kid would be allowed to be doing football workouts once baseball conditioning started (Jan) just like I expect them back for spring football in late April and to not be coaxed into skills camps and fall ball. That immediate (I approached him his first day) "this is how we can work together" paid off. 

This approach has worked for me. My 2/3 sport guys have to be treated a little different than my football-only crew. 

I am sure to push kids into playing other sports. One thing that I've done is been very transparent with the other coaches about our strength programming, and how it applies to ALL explosive sport athletes...not a "football" training regiment. I stress the importance of year-round training, regardless of being in a sport or not. Kids need to be involved in the weight room, no matter what sport they are in. We work around their schedules- I am currently pulling 2-3 winter sport athletes 2/3x's per week from their PE class to workout with my S&C class so that they keep lifting during wrestling and Basketball. 

[runitupthemiddle]

Post a scholarship paper in the locker room

D1-85
1aa-63
D2-36
NAIA-25?
Juco- a ton

For football
Baseball -9.3-that it!

Juco-25