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Post by 3rdandlong on Feb 12, 2018 1:09:35 GMT -6
A California state legislator is looking to ban youth football in California. While it may not affect your state, rest assured if it passes in 1 state, it can easily pass in others. -Please speak out against it even if it’s only social media. #savecafootball
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Post by 50slantstrong on Feb 12, 2018 9:58:23 GMT -6
Already mailed my assemblyman and have been blowing up social media.
Maybe I'm paranoid but I believe if this passes, high school is next on the agenda.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 12, 2018 21:47:11 GMT -6
Football is a dead man walking without fundamental changes to it. I see nothing wrong with getting rid of kids 12 and under playing tackle football. Somehow, I and millions of others, never played a game of tackle football until HS, but still we played and fell in love with it. You can't continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. The sport will not be saved by trying to keep it the same.
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Post by bigshel on Feb 12, 2018 21:57:01 GMT -6
Football is a dead man walking without fundamental changes to it. I see nothing wrong with getting rid of kids 12 and under playing tackle football. Somehow, I and millions of others, never played a game of tackle football until HS, but still we played and fell in love with it. You can't continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. The sport will not be saved by trying to keep it the same. The other side of that coin is that, literally, millions of kids have played youth football without incurring brain injuries. |
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 12, 2018 22:02:30 GMT -6
Football is a dead man walking without fundamental changes to it. I see nothing wrong with getting rid of kids 12 and under playing tackle football. Somehow, I and millions of others, never played a game of tackle football until HS, but still we played and fell in love with it. You can't continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. The sport will not be saved by trying to keep it the same. The other side of that coin is that, literally, millions of kids have played youth football without incurring brain injuries. How do we know that? We don't. |
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Post by bigshel on Feb 12, 2018 22:06:53 GMT -6
The other side of that coin is that, literally, millions of kids have played youth football without incurring brain injuries. How do we know that? We don't. No more than we know that playing youth ball causes CTE. So you're right about that. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 22:07:29 GMT -6
The other side of that coin is that, literally, millions of kids have played youth football without incurring brain injuries. How do we know that? We don't. and you know that the other side is true? Oh we don't. |
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 12, 2018 22:09:59 GMT -6
But to stick our heads in the sand a be stubborn isn't going to save the game. Your attitudes that "we don't know that footballis bad so we shouldn't change it" is the exact reason people are running from the game.
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Post by bigshel on Feb 12, 2018 22:16:29 GMT -6
But to stick our heads in the sand a be stubborn isn't going to save the game. Your attitudes that "we don't know that footballis bad so we shouldn't change it" is the exact reason people are running from the game. That's some straw man there. I didn't say anything like "we shouldn't change". Eliminating football for 12 and under isn't changing anything, though; it's eliminating something. There's no logic for eliminating football that you can apply to the 12 and under age group that doesn't also apply to the 13-17 age group. |
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 12, 2018 22:23:38 GMT -6
If the science is right and that the biggest threat to brain injury is long term sub concussive hits, kids not tackling under age 12-14 could have a big effect on people's long term health.
I just don't see any negatives to having little kids not play tackle football
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2018 22:32:12 GMT -6
But to stick our heads in the sand a be stubborn isn't going to save the game. Your attitudes that "we don't know that footballis bad so we shouldn't change it" is the exact reason people are running from the game. once again you are assuming football is causing brain damage? Where is hard non indisputable evidence? Oh wait there isn't any AGAIN but we are going to make changes? If you think it's such a dangerous game, forget changes just quit coaching watching and supporting it, and while you are At it, call for it to be outlawed. My guess is you won't do any of that either. Somehow I think some version of 7 on 7 is your answer. |
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Post by bigshel on Feb 12, 2018 22:48:32 GMT -6
If the science is right and that the biggest threat to brain injury is long term sub concussive hits, kids not tackling under age 12-14 could have a big effect on people's long term health. I just don't see any negatives to having little kids not play tackle football This has already been beat to death on another thread. The point of THIS thread is to sign the petition to save youth football in California. If you think this is going to stop at youth football, then you have your head in the sand. It doesn't take a PhD to see that IF (and that's a BIG IF, because no causative relationship has been established) sub-concussive hits in youth football are the issue, then sub-concussive hits at the high school level are the issue as well. And with that, I bid you adieu. |
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Post by newt21 on Feb 13, 2018 7:38:47 GMT -6
If the science is right and that the biggest threat to brain injury is long term sub concussive hits, kids not tackling under age 12-14 could have a big effect on people's long term health. I just don't see any negatives to having little kids not play tackle football This has already been beat to death on another thread. The point of THIS thread is to sign the petition to save youth football in California. If you think this is going to stop at youth football, then you have your head in the sand. It doesn't take a PhD to see that IF (and that's a BIG IF, because no causative relationship has been established) sub-concussive hits in youth football are the issue, then sub-concussive hits at the high school level are the issue as well. And with that, I bid you adieu. Link to petition? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 13, 2018 9:06:54 GMT -6
If the science is right and that the biggest threat to brain injury is long term sub concussive hits, kids not tackling under age 12-14 of 18 could have a big effect on people's long term health. I just don't see any negatives to having little High School kids not play tackle football I fixed your quote for you. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and yours obviously are just as valid as everyone elses. But as my corrections above highlight, your opinion is heavily framed by your point of view as a high school coach who seems to think the point of youth ball is to lead into HS ball. Just keep in mind that there are others who recognize that many if not most youth football players do not end up playing Varsity football. In my area (city population estimated at 28,000) we have two youth organizations that probably have about 750 kids total playing ball under 7th grade age. These are not affiliated at all with any school. Then 4 jr high schools with teams about maybe 40 kids a piece. So that is about 900 kids a year playing tackle football below the 9th grade. We have 1 private and 3 public high schools in the city, enrollments are about 300, 700, 1,500, 1500. Football rosters are probably about 45, 70, 100, 100 (9-12). So that is 315 kids playing tackle football above 9th grade. That is a fairly substantial drop off, and keep in mind that is including Frosh and JV. If we are just talking about kids who actually play on Friday Nights it is obviously much lower. Again, you have a valid opinion and comment, I just wanted to make sure you saw it your perspective framed it. Essentially, it is much easier for you to say "hey, I am ok with eliminating tackle youth football" because you are not involved in tackle youth football. Regarding the science, I would not be surprised if the science would reveal that youth ball is SAFER when it comes to sub concussive blows than HS. What if the a political group was trying to end football OVER the age of 14? Where would you fall on that proposition? |
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 13, 2018 9:27:13 GMT -6
What is the point of youth football if not to get kids ready for higher levels?
Honestly, I'm not sure I'd really care one way or another if they ended football. Our society is screwed enough as it is, I don't think getting rid of football is going to be some Armageddon type situation that everyone thinks it will be.
Football did not teach me anything that other sports didn't. If any sport shaped me into what I am today, it wasn't football, it was wrestling. I really enjoyed playing football, but wrestling is what taught me more about myself.
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Post by pvogel on Feb 13, 2018 9:30:25 GMT -6
I wouldn't let my kids play tackle til 7th or 8th myself. But I also wouldn't smoke cigarettes or enter a civil union or marriage with another man, and yet I don't find it a government role to intervene with either decision.
That aside, the biggest issue I have is the pretentious stance of one of the congressperson's attitude towards this. There was a tweet where she labeled terrible things and what she did to battle them - things like civil rights, homelessness, gun violence, etc. And then she added that she is proud to add banning football on that list. That absolutely disgusted me and turned me against her movement more than the actual proposal itself.
Man. I absolutely HATE the rhetoric used in politics. Every politician is a hero in their own eyes and everyone that disagrees is either evil or stupid (or somehow both?)
Sorry. End rant.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 13, 2018 9:34:46 GMT -6
What is the point of youth football if not to get kids ready for higher levels? Honestly, I'm not sure I'd really care one way or another if they ended football. Our society is screwed enough as it is, I don't think getting rid of football is going to be some Armageddon type situation that everyone thinks it will be. Football did not teach me anything that other sports didn't. If any sport shaped me into what I am today, it wasn't football, it was wrestling. I really enjoyed playing football, but wrestling is what taught me more about myself. The point of youth football is to play football at that age. Same as the point of HS football is to play football at that age. You wouldn't say the point of HS football is to get kids ready for college would you? I agree 100% with you about not playing football at all. Don't mistake my discussion here as some type of "OH WE NEED FOOTBALL OR THE U.S. is doomed" I am right with you and have always said that the "we need football, it teaches _____" is a poor argument. |
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Post by bigshel on Feb 13, 2018 10:01:11 GMT -6
This has already been beat to death on another thread. The point of THIS thread is to sign the petition to save youth football in California. If you think this is going to stop at youth football, then you have your head in the sand. It doesn't take a PhD to see that IF (and that's a BIG IF, because no causative relationship has been established) sub-concussive hits in youth football are the issue, then sub-concussive hits at the high school level are the issue as well. And with that, I bid you adieu. Link to petition? Here you go Coach. www.change.org/p/save-youth-football-in-california |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 10:04:08 GMT -6
What is the point of youth football if not to get kids ready for higher levels? Honestly, I'm not sure I'd really care one way or another if they ended football. Our society is screwed enough as it is, I don't think getting rid of football is going to be some Armageddon type situation that everyone thinks it will be. Football did not teach me anything that other sports didn't. If any sport shaped me into what I am today, it wasn't football, it was wrestling. I really enjoyed playing football, but wrestling is what taught me more about myself. so you are just trolling! Thanks. |
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Post by bigshel on Feb 13, 2018 10:05:18 GMT -6
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 13, 2018 10:16:01 GMT -6
What is the point of youth football if not to get kids ready for higher levels? Honestly, I'm not sure I'd really care one way or another if they ended football. Our society is screwed enough as it is, I don't think getting rid of football is going to be some Armageddon type situation that everyone thinks it will be. Football did not teach me anything that other sports didn't. If any sport shaped me into what I am today, it wasn't football, it was wrestling. I really enjoyed playing football, but wrestling is what taught me more about myself. so you are just trolling! Thanks. No, he is providing alternative viewpoints. One I definitely understand, with some that I have echoed. Just because someone is not crying "OH MY GOD, NO FOOTBALL...WE ARE DOOMED" does not mean they are trolling. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 10:21:16 GMT -6
so you are just trolling! Thanks. No, he is providing alternative viewpoints. One I definitely understand, with some that I have echoed. Just because someone is not crying "OH MY GOD, NO FOOTBALL...WE ARE DOOMED" does not mean they are trolling. somehow I don't think the other 99 pct. would get that benefit of the doubt.Its the internet though. |
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Post by Coach Vice on Feb 13, 2018 10:32:02 GMT -6
But to stick our heads in the sand a be stubborn isn't going to save the game. Your attitudes that "we don't know that footballis bad so we shouldn't change it" is the exact reason people are running from the game. No...it's not the "exact" reason. People are running from the game for a number of reasons that have more to do with society and culture and less to do with the actual game. I do agree with you that we need to adapt when necessary. However, we need to take a stand on the concussion data because that's going to be indefensible in the court of public opinion. The media and soft society has made head injuries in HIGH SCHOOL football a bigger issue than it is. Not a bigger issue than it should be, but a bigger issue than it is. There's a difference. Head injuries should be a primary concern, but it shouldn't end the game based on the data we have. Regardless, I fight this fight every time I get a chance. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 13, 2018 10:33:18 GMT -6
No, he is providing alternative viewpoints. One I definitely understand, with some that I have echoed. Just because someone is not crying "OH MY GOD, NO FOOTBALL...WE ARE DOOMED" does not mean they are trolling. somehow I don't think the other 99 pct. would get that benefit of the doubt.Its the internet though. What? I have no idea what message you are trying to convey here. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 13, 2018 10:35:27 GMT -6
But to stick our heads in the sand a be stubborn isn't going to save the game. Your attitudes that "we don't know that footballis bad so we shouldn't change it" is the exact reason people are running from the game. No...it's not the "exact" reason. People are running from the game for a number of reasons that have more to do with society and culture and less to do with the actual game. I do agree with you that we need to adapt when necessary. However, we need to take a stand on the concussion data because that's going to be indefensible in the court of public opinion. The media and soft society has made head injuries in HIGH SCHOOL football a bigger issue than it is. Not a bigger issue than it should be, but a bigger issue than it is. There's a difference. Head injuries should be a primary concern, but it shouldn't end the game based on the data we have. Regardless, I fight this fight every time I get a chance. So you are saying that the media and "soft society" should be making an even BIGGER deal? That is what "Not a bigger issue than it should be" means. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 10:35:39 GMT -6
somehow I don't think the other 99 pct. would get that benefit of the doubt.Its the internet though. What? I have no idea what message you are trying to convey here. Somebody else does exact same thing, and he or she is new? They are charged with just trolling. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 13, 2018 10:37:32 GMT -6
What? I have no idea what message you are trying to convey here. Somebody else does exact same thing, and he or she is new? They are charged with just trolling. Does what? Provides alternative and well expressed viewpoints? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 10:39:02 GMT -6
Somebody else does exact same thing, and he or she is new? They are charged with just trolling. Does what? Provides alternative and well expressed viewpoints? LOL! |
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Post by Coach Vice on Feb 13, 2018 10:42:44 GMT -6
What is the point of youth football if not to get kids ready for higher levels? Honestly, I'm not sure I'd really care one way or another if they ended football. Our society is screwed enough as it is, I don't think getting rid of football is going to be some Armageddon type situation that everyone thinks it will be. Football did not teach me anything that other sports didn't. If any sport shaped me into what I am today, it wasn't football, it was wrestling. I really enjoyed playing football, but wrestling is what taught me more about myself. I think you're wrong on one point: "I don't think getting rid of football is going to be some Armageddon type situation". It will. Perhaps the act of removing football won't be the direct result of "Armageddon", but it definitely will be a sign. When we start ending outlets for young men to practice the hard stuff....we're eff'd. And if you think for one second that it will stop at football, you're crazy. When there is no more "big bad football" to fight against........there will be things like wrestling. Don't blink, because it's totally possible. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 10:46:06 GMT -6
What is the point of youth football if not to get kids ready for higher levels? Honestly, I'm not sure I'd really care one way or another if they ended football. Our society is screwed enough as it is, I don't think getting rid of football is going to be some Armageddon type situation that everyone thinks it will be. Football did not teach me anything that other sports didn't. If any sport shaped me into what I am today, it wasn't football, it was wrestling. I really enjoyed playing football, but wrestling is what taught me more about myself. I think you're wrong on one point: "I don't think getting rid of football is going to be some Armageddon type situation". It will. Perhaps the act of removing football won't be the direct result of "Armageddon", but it definitely will be a sign. When we start ending outlets for young men to practice the hard stuff....we're eff'd. And if you think for one second that it will stop at football, you're crazy. When there is no more "big bad football" to fight against........there will be things like wrestling. Don't blink, because it's totally possible. Never! They just want to protect our kids! Ha! |
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