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Post by 19delta on Sept 17, 2023 10:46:23 GMT -6
Hit him in a manner that less than a decade ago would be considered tough hard nosed football?? He didn't take a head shot. He really just braced himself and gave Hunter an unanticipated shoulder block. It was clearly illegal due to the current rules. There was a penalty assessed. But since it happened to a member of what seems to be the 2023 "chosen team" so much more is going to be made of it. The play was over. The ball had hit the ground. The safety made no attempt on the ball. He just late hit the kid in an unprotected part of his body and sent him to the hospital. And the kid just happened to be possibly the best player in the country and a two way player. That was a cheap ass INTENTIONAL play in any decade. Heck, that would have been cheap in MMA. And I thought that live and on replay. 100%. That CSU kid wasn’t playing football. He was trying to hurt someone. And he succeeded. Total cheap shot.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 17, 2023 10:53:55 GMT -6
I suspect that wont be the last hit of that nature an opponent dishes out on a Colorado player. Deions brought a lot of attention to the program and it's inevitably going to rub some folks the wrong way. I have a feeling if a Colorado player had hit a CSU player like that Twitter would be calling it "swagger" and "intimidating" and a fair result of "making things personal". But you know what, that didn’t happen. The CSU kids were the ones displaying blatant thuggery. CU had penalties but not of the egregious types committed by CSU. Jay Norvell is the guy whose momma raised him right. He’s the guy who coaches his kids to do it the “right way” (whatever that means). But Deion’s guys were much more composed and held their mud way better on a big stage. I thought CSU was clearly the better team in terms of athletes and execution. But they were undisciplined and focused on nonsense and that ultimately cost them the game.
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Post by jg78 on Sept 17, 2023 11:03:08 GMT -6
I don't know that it's a good idea for Hunter's future to play both ways so extensively. Running up the mileage on his body before he makes the big bucks.
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Post by silkyice on Sept 17, 2023 11:40:31 GMT -6
The play was over. The ball had hit the ground. The safety made no attempt on the ball. He just late hit the kid in an unprotected part of his body and sent him to the hospital. And the kid just happened to be possibly the best player in the country and a two way player. That was a cheap ass INTENTIONAL play in any decade. Heck, that would have been cheap in MMA. And I thought that live and on replay. It was clearly an illegal hit, as I mentioned. It was an attempt to intimidate. The Safety took one extra step after the ball hit the ground and braced himself lowering his shoulder. The results (Hunter being injured) and the setting are influencing the opinion as to the egregiousness of the foul. It was no where near many other hits in the history of football. In fact this hit seems worse. But that was a game nobody but OSU and Rutgers fans saw... The hit in question seems far far less cheap/dirty than many of these... I was really just commenting on this comment, "Hit him in a manner that less than a decade ago would be considered tough hard nosed football??" I just disagree with comment. I believe that was a cheap late hit in any decade. It certainly wasn't the cheapest thing I have ever seen though. But still cheap and from my point of view, intentional.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 17, 2023 12:03:20 GMT -6
The play was over. The ball had hit the ground. The safety made no attempt on the ball. He just late hit the kid in an unprotected part of his body and sent him to the hospital. And the kid just happened to be possibly the best player in the country and a two way player. That was a cheap ass INTENTIONAL play in any decade. Heck, that would have been cheap in MMA. And I thought that live and on replay. 100%. That CSU kid wasn’t playing football. He was trying to hurt someone. And he succeeded. Total cheap shot. I disagree 100% with respect to the "intent to hurt someone"-- inflict pain and intimidation...yes. Injure..No way. He slowed down, gathered himself, braced himself and lowered his shoulder and leaned into Hunter as Hunter was starting to decelerate. To be clear, I am in no way suggesting what happened was right. It was illegal. It was an attempt to intimate and inflict pain outside of the rules. I am simply saying that in many cases after hits like that (not even to the head), Hunter pops up, jaws at him, there is pushing and shoving and the game goes on.
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Post by tripsclosed on Sept 17, 2023 12:23:01 GMT -6
I don't know that it's a good idea for Hunter's future to play both ways so extensively. Running up the mileage on his body before he makes the big bucks. Have to agree with you here, coach, especially now that he has had an injury that warranted a trip to the hospital. I figured Deion did it in the TCU game to get a statement win right out of the gate to get momementum and then after that would only start him on one side of the ball and then spot use him in nut-cutting time on the other side of the ball...At this point, with how bad they are doing defensively, probably would be good to start him on defense and spot use him on offense, considering how loaded they already are on offense...
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Post by 19delta on Sept 17, 2023 13:26:44 GMT -6
100%. That CSU kid wasn’t playing football. He was trying to hurt someone. And he succeeded. Total cheap shot. I disagree 100% with respect to the "intent to hurt someone"-- inflict pain and intimidation...yes. Injure..No way. He slowed down, gathered himself, braced himself and lowered his shoulder and leaned into Hunter as Hunter was starting to decelerate. To be clear, I am in no way suggesting what happened was right. It was illegal. It was an attempt to intimate and inflict pain outside of the rules. I am simply saying that in many cases after hits like that (not even to the head), Hunter pops up, jaws at him, there is pushing and shoving and the game goes on. Man...you really ARE the master of the non sequitur. In the second part of your post, you agree with me. You agree that what the kid did was pure thuggery. So, really, what difference does it matter what his "intent" was other than to say that it was dirty and unnecessary? (And, by the way, you have no better knowledge of the kid's intent any more than I or anyone else do). The POINT is that the CSU kid came in way late, after the play. In fact, I think there was two fouls on the play. They flagged the initial defender for PI. The late hit came after that flag had already been thrown. So, why defend the kid's action? It was cheap, dirty, and unnecessary. And the game was already chippy at that point. The officials HAD to throw that flag. Maybe, under other circumstances, a flag doesn't get thrown. But, I would argue that in ANY situation like that, a flag would get thrown MOST of the time and should be thrown ALL of the time.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 17, 2023 13:54:22 GMT -6
I disagree 100% with respect to the "intent to hurt someone"-- inflict pain and intimidation...yes. Injure..No way. He slowed down, gathered himself, braced himself and lowered his shoulder and leaned into Hunter as Hunter was starting to decelerate. To be clear, I am in no way suggesting what happened was right. It was illegal. It was an attempt to intimate and inflict pain outside of the rules. I am simply saying that in many cases after hits like that (not even to the head), Hunter pops up, jaws at him, there is pushing and shoving and the game goes on. Man...you really ARE the master of the non sequitur. In the second part of your post, you agree with me. You agree that what the kid did was pure thuggery. So, really, what difference does it matter what his "intent" was other than to say that it was dirty and unnecessary? (And, by the way, you have no better knowledge of the kid's intent any more than I or anyone else do). The POINT is that the CSU kid came in way late, after the play. In fact, I think there was two fouls on the play. They flagged the initial defender for PI. The late hit came after that flag had already been thrown. So, why defend the kid's action? It was cheap, dirty, and unnecessary. And the game was already chippy at that point. The officials HAD to throw that flag. Maybe, under other circumstances, a flag doesn't get thrown. But, I would argue that in ANY situation like that, a flag would get thrown MOST of the time and should be thrown ALL of the time. I am not defending the kids actions. I am saying that attention the play received (social media outcries etc.) as well as the "Hunter is a great player, that player who hit him is a POS" etc. doesn't seem to fall in line with the actual action performed given the long line of late hits in football history. If he wanted to "hurt him" then why slow down and just give him a shoulder block? Why not explode through the head with a high forearm or lead with the helmet? I am saying that the kid tried to intimidate. To let him know "Hey I will be here all day, and you will feel physical pain when you get near me". But, Hunter got hurt and now its a spotlight on "thuggery" Hypotheticals are never provable, but if the blow glances off of Hunter, instead of hitting him squarely, and gets up and barks at him, this is a non issue. But he didn't. So it is.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 17, 2023 14:14:30 GMT -6
Man...you really ARE the master of the non sequitur. In the second part of your post, you agree with me. You agree that what the kid did was pure thuggery. So, really, what difference does it matter what his "intent" was other than to say that it was dirty and unnecessary? (And, by the way, you have no better knowledge of the kid's intent any more than I or anyone else do). The POINT is that the CSU kid came in way late, after the play. In fact, I think there was two fouls on the play. They flagged the initial defender for PI. The late hit came after that flag had already been thrown. So, why defend the kid's action? It was cheap, dirty, and unnecessary. And the game was already chippy at that point. The officials HAD to throw that flag. Maybe, under other circumstances, a flag doesn't get thrown. But, I would argue that in ANY situation like that, a flag would get thrown MOST of the time and should be thrown ALL of the time. I am not defending the kids actions. I am saying that attention the play received (social media outcries etc.) as well as the "Hunter is a great player, that player who hit him is a POS" etc. doesn't seem to fall in line with the actual action performed given the long line of late hits in football history. If he wanted to "hurt him" then why slow down and just give him a shoulder block? Why not explode through the head with a high forearm or lead with the helmet? I am saying that the kid tried to intimidate. To let him know "Hey I will be here all day, and you will feel physical pain when you get near me". But, Hunter got hurt and now its a spotlight on "thuggery" Hypotheticals are never provable, but if the blow glances off of Hunter, instead of hitting him squarely, and gets up and barks at him, this is a non issue. But he didn't. So it is. It IS thuggery. That’s the point. Anything else is pedantic. Which is your wheelhouse, of course! 😂
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Post by silkyice on Sept 17, 2023 14:24:39 GMT -6
If he wanted to "hurt him" then why slow down and just give him a shoulder block? Why not explode through the head with a high forearm or lead with the helmet? I understand what you are saying, but another perception here is that there is no way the kid could have done what you are saying and not been ejected and a gigantic brawl breaking out. He knew that, but still wanted to "get" him and tried to be "sneaky" about it. So that is why it happened. Just my perception.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 17, 2023 14:32:31 GMT -6
Am I the only one who thinks "Prime" walks away to the NFL when his kids are gone?
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Post by blb on Sept 17, 2023 14:49:18 GMT -6
Am I the only one who thinks "Prime" walks away to the NFL when his kids are gone? Sanders said in radio interview he does not want to coach in NFL because he doesn't want to have to deal with egos of guys making millions of dollars.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 17, 2023 14:58:23 GMT -6
Am I the only one who thinks "Prime" walks away to the NFL when his kids are gone? He seems much more suited to college. The list of successful college coaches who also had success in the NFL is really short. And Sanders has been pretty great out of the gate but he is at the start of his career. I can see him jumping to a higher profile FBS program, for sure.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 17, 2023 15:05:06 GMT -6
Am I the only one who thinks "Prime" walks away to the NFL when his kids are gone? The only person? Probably not. But you and the others are very likely wrong. Prime has said numerous times, even prior to coaching I believe, that he would have no interest in coaching professional players ". He has reiterated this as recently as this week, with additional support coming from Rich Eisen who has worked with Sanders for over a decade with the NFL network.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 17, 2023 15:56:44 GMT -6
Am I the only one who thinks "Prime" walks away to the NFL when his kids are gone? Sanders said in radio interview he does not want to coach in NFL because he doesn't want to have to deal with egos of guys making millions of dollars. Siri, define irony to me.
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Post by fantom on Sept 17, 2023 16:00:26 GMT -6
Am I the only one who thinks "Prime" walks away to the NFL when his kids are gone? Sanders said in radio interview he does not want to coach in NFL because he doesn't want to have to deal with egos of guys making millions of dollars. Plus keep in mind that he's not a young man. He's 56 years old.
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Post by fantom on Sept 17, 2023 16:14:23 GMT -6
It's clearly a penalty and probably would have been years ago. That said, I think terms like "thug" and POS might be a little harsh. Sometimes when you're playing defense something happens, maybe your clock speeds up or something like that. Probably a lot of guys on this forum have done something like it and they can't even explain it.
I had a play like that when I was in college. I could have sworn that it was a bang-bang play and that I was on time. I was really shocked when I saw the film and that I had been a full second late. It happens.
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Post by tog on Sept 17, 2023 16:16:15 GMT -6
What most stood out to me from last night's game is that CSU lost over 180 yards on penalties and looked completely unhinged at times. What stood out to me (could not watch the game itself, do not have cable) was the nearly partisan way that ESPN presented much of the pregame stuff. With the Countdown to Gameday crew making sure to sport their sunglasses and clearly infer that they fell on the CU side of things regarding that silly spat, to their newest major property Pat Mcafee clearly not being a neutral party in the silly spat etc. I get it, if I were running ESPN, I would start hitching my wagon to CU and Prime right now as a ratings leader. As Television/Broadcasting continues to ascend to the most important power broker in college football (and thus college athletics), I do have some concerns that sports broadcasts and coverage might go the way of partisan "news"/entertainment. been that way for a while now it was vile
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 17, 2023 16:22:08 GMT -6
What stood out to me (could not watch the game itself, do not have cable) was the nearly partisan way that ESPN presented much of the pregame stuff. With the Countdown to Gameday crew making sure to sport their sunglasses and clearly infer that they fell on the CU side of things regarding that silly spat, to their newest major property Pat Mcafee clearly not being a neutral party in the silly spat etc. I get it, if I were running ESPN, I would start hitching my wagon to CU and Prime right now as a ratings leader. As Television/Broadcasting continues to ascend to the most important power broker in college football (and thus college athletics), I do have some concerns that sports broadcasts and coverage might go the way of partisan "news"/entertainment. been that way for a while now it was vile I don't think it has. This was the first time I can recall feeling that the broadcast team was almost "for" a team, or at least had a relationship with one team over another.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 17, 2023 16:25:29 GMT -6
Sanders said in radio interview he does not want to coach in NFL because he doesn't want to have to deal with egos of guys making millions of dollars. Plus keep in mind that he's not a young man. He's 56 years old. For the NFL, that's young. There's at least 3 NFL HCs in their 70s.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 17, 2023 16:27:45 GMT -6
Plus keep in mind that he's not a young man. He's 56 years old. For the NFL, that's young. There's at least 3 NFL HCs in their 70s. I don't think his age would be an NFL factor. But regarding the ego/money thing-- don't assume that just because Sanders has an ego and was a highly compensated for his era doesn't mean that he was not coachable.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 17, 2023 16:58:17 GMT -6
It's clearly a penalty and probably would have been years ago. That said, I think terms like "thug" and POS might be a little harsh. Sometimes when you're playing defense something happens, maybe your clock speeds up or something like that. Probably a lot of guys on this forum have done something like it and they can't even explain it. I had a play like that when I was in college. I could have sworn that it was a bang-bang play and that I was on time. I was really shocked when I saw the film and that I had been a full second late. It happens. The problem is, it happened multiple times last night. And almost exclusively by the CSU players. That’s not a bang-bang, one-off play. That’s players who have been encouraged to play like that by their coaches.
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Post by fantom on Sept 17, 2023 17:05:29 GMT -6
For the NFL, that's young. There's at least 3 NFL HCs in their 70s. I don't think his age would be an NFL factor. But regarding the ego/money thing-- don't assume that just because Sanders has an ego and was a highly compensated for his era doesn't mean that he was not coachable. It's not that I think that the NFL wouldn't want him. He may think that at his age he doesn't want to deal with NFL egos.
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Post by brophy on Sept 18, 2023 10:21:27 GMT -6
Nice caveat to the situation
From SI.com covering Ed Reed.
Sanders situation is unique because his flash overshadows what he's done to prepare for success. He behaves in a way that only he can and I'm sure every game will be 'personal' for him. That said, his program has done a phenomenal job hiding their weaknesses. Namely, their complete inability to bang between the tackles or protect against interior pressure. There is a Dennis Green quote available for this observation. So they've successfully embraced how to prevent opponents from cornering them (empty, screens, vertically aggressive, tempo. Etc)
Prime is the perfect storm of wild wild west of NCAA alignment + NIL + transfer portal. You couldnt ask for a better leader in the age of NIL. But who is NIL really benefiting? Marketable skill players. How do linemen, tight ends, fullbacks, utility players benefit? If you're the NIL program without a legacy/history how are you going to bring in those top kids at those positions? Much less develop a pipeline? Something that could easily get overlooked if you're short sighted (not sure what the plan is for Sanders)
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CoachK
Sophomore Member
Posts: 147
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Post by CoachK on Sept 18, 2023 10:37:37 GMT -6
Speaking of superstar coaches, is that a brophy sighting?? Hot damn.
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Post by fantom on Sept 18, 2023 10:49:13 GMT -6
Speaking of superstar coaches, is that a brophy sighting?? Hot damn. Now I don't feel so bad about not waking up to see the comet last week.
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Post by tripsclosed on Sept 18, 2023 11:08:53 GMT -6
Speaking of superstar coaches, is that a brophy sighting?? Hot damn. It's been way way too long
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Post by spreadattack on Sept 18, 2023 14:37:57 GMT -6
Plus keep in mind that he's not a young man. He's 56 years old. For the NFL, that's young. There's at least 3 NFL HCs in their 70s. There are 9 NFL coaches who are 40 or younger
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Post by blb on Sept 18, 2023 15:09:29 GMT -6
Plus keep in mind that he's not a young man. He's 56 years old. For the NFL, that's young. There's at least 3 NFL HCs in their 70s. Belichick has been coaching in NFL since 1975. Pete Carroll, except for his time at USC (2001-09) since 1984. I don't know who third NFL HC currently in his 70s you mean. Regardless that would be different than Sanders jumping from three years at JSU and one (or more) at Colorado to NFL.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 18, 2023 20:38:39 GMT -6
For the NFL, that's young. There's at least 3 NFL HCs in their 70s. Belichick has been coaching in NFL since 1975. Pete Carroll, except for his time at USC (2001-09) since 1984. I don't know who third NFL HC currently in his 70s you mean. Regardless that would be different than Sanders jumping from three years at JSU and one (or more) at Colorado to NFL. I thought Andy Reid was older than he is.
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