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Post by brophy on Sept 6, 2005 7:56:33 GMT -6
Is there a "decorum" for handling aggressive parents? Just wondering. We've had vociferous parents in the past, many during the games, some during season. We had one last night that challenged the staff (thankfully after practice) on why his grandson wasn't playing defense at LB instead of FB on offense. He went on to list his accomplishments from the last season on defense and after his miserable performance at FB in the last game, he shouldn't be playing offense - he should play defense. He went on to berate the "other" kids playing on defense, though the defense performed very well the previous game.
We run a two-platoon and only 2-3 players actually go both ways. This guardian has threatened to; 1) pull his kid from the school /program, 2) go to the local media on why his kid isn't playing defense, 3) complain to the administration.
He was invited to sit down and talk with the AD and HC today, and will likely not.
Just an interesting "situation".
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Post by PowerDown on Sept 6, 2005 8:42:56 GMT -6
Could be the worst part of coaching. Has this grand parent been to practices? Has he seen why you have put players in the positions they are in based on their performances in practice? Most likely not! What does the player think about all of this? Has he accepted his role or is he getting talked out of it every night.
Parents and Grand Parents will never understand that coaches sometimes have to put the interests of the entire team over the interests of one or two players.
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Post by brophy on Sept 6, 2005 8:58:06 GMT -6
That's the real bummer....
This kid is a 'good' kid....kind of stiff, but a great athlete. He WAS our starting MLB last year, because he was a terror in last year's camp and in the first game, then stood around watching and catching a lot, so we moved him outside, where he did much better. He was 'good' and I fought to get him more playing time on defense in the off-season, but later made due with what we had (developing young talent that would specialize on defense), because HE was to be the focal part of our 'new' offense. HE was being showcased at Fullback / H-back because he was such a good load blocker last year. We would run veer, follow, and power BECAUSE of him. All last year, he WANTED to play offense, didn't really 'want' to play defense. So, the off season was built around him and one other explosive player on offense. Come Friday, night, he puts on a 27% grade night...completely blows assignments and whiffs on EVERY block but one..... Now, I COULD give him reps on defense, no problem, but I already have three other guys that can play "his" position just fine (thank you). So again, what's best for the program WAS him on offense - his impact on defense would be marginal, but he'd get his "Stats".
Bottom line, his grandparent was going to pull him from the program last night, we'll see...the 'problem' if there is one, seems to be that his "advisors" tell him he's a better player than he really is. The kid is a great physical specimen, but at 5'8", 215, and kind of stiff, he THINKS he's a D1 prospect and that's all he talks about. I'd rate him at a DIII prospect at best, but he is so concerned about getting a scholarship that he misses out on the things that make the sport great (isn't involved in "team", doesn't lift with other players, didn't participate in off-season stuff, etc).
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Post by bulldog on Sept 6, 2005 10:59:21 GMT -6
We try to set expectations with the parents early. If you check our website www.folsomfootball.com and click on the "Parents" link under the Program Menu, you will see that we clearly set boundaries. We cover the same material in our yearly 'parents meeting'. Invariably, the parents that need to hear the message about communication fail to show up. So, when we get agitated parents, my first question is, 'were you able to attend the parents meeting?'. If the answer is no, then I ask if they have had a chance to review the website and parents expectations. After they respond NO, I hand them a printout with the expectations. I ask them to read it right then. If they still want to talk and stray onto off limits subjects (like other players, or playcalling, then I remind the parent that it is inappropriate . . .) After 4 years of this policy, we don't have parent issues like the one you mentioned (we did have these problems when we took over the program). Of course it would be appropriate to discuss a player's position with his guardian. Again with agitated parents, we will not have a on-field confrontation. To difuse the situation and retake the upper hand, I will ask a parent whether they would like to meet with us Tuesday or Wednesday after practice in my office. I make sure that my coordinator and his position coach all attend the meeting. By the time the meeting rolls around, the parent is usually calm. At the meeting, we first review the coach's and parent's expectations for conduct. We make sure to mention that a coach's job is to put the team ahead of the individual. We would try to head-off the situation a little earlier. We have a formal off-season program. They lift starting in January, then spring practice, followed by our summer program. If they don't participate in our activities (none of which are mandatory, but we have a high 90% attendance), they will not play in our program (unless they have a legit reason). I know that your regulations may not allow for this kind of supervision. As a coordinator, I clearly spell-out my expectations with players. Rule #1, if you don't know alignment & assignment, you will not play. Rule #2, I expect great attitude and effort at all times. That's it. And just a little reality check . . . a kid 5'8" who is a 'little stiff', and who had trouble starting for his high school might not be a recruitable athlete - for any college. There are LOTS of stiff 5'8" guys that colleges can recruit. But, I always like the challenge of turning a player around. Getting rid of him is easy. Integrating him into the team is a lot harder. Just remember that your team's attitude is affected by how you handle your players. Set the expectations, love him up and let him know you will help him succeed, and then make it his decision how he reacts. (You may need to level-set him regarding his scholarship expectations - find out to whom he compares himself - and why he thinks he will earn a scholarship). I hope this helps because this is a bad situation.
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Post by amikell on Sept 6, 2005 12:54:14 GMT -6
bulldog, that is great advice. simply fantastic philosophy about integrating the player into the team. I do have a question. How would you handle those attitudes eat away at the team? I know every situation is different, but how do you basically handle it? Any thoughts?
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Post by bulldog on Sept 7, 2005 2:07:27 GMT -6
We've done a couple of things that have worked out. I don't know what your situation is exactly, so here are some things you can consider:
1. Get a leader to take him under his wing.
2. Playing time is always motivating. As our expectations state, the team comes first. And if a player does not know alignment & assignment, then he doesn't play.
3. I give position 'tests' on the game plan when I have a problem with knowing a & a. They will start to actually study then they know they are being tested.
4. Have a 'mental rep' coach/leader. He stands with the player behind the huddle and they listen to the call. Before the play starts, the player should recite his a & a.
5. When we have a team focus problem, we use a 'clap drill'. The players not in the drill watch the play and a leader will say, '1 clap ready", and the team will clap. If they aren't enthusiatic, then we don the bend-thrusts.
6. We have used practice 'clicks'. During our team periods, we look for good plays/techniques. We award positive clicks (we use a pitch count clicker). For a loaf, or failure to run the ball, failed assignment, curse, or penalty, they get negative clicks. At the end of practice, their conditioning depends on the number of clicks. The players really whoop it up then someone gets a double positive . .
7. I don't do pursuit drills. I drill it in all of my team work. I demand that "everyone runs to the ball every play". So, if I have a problem player, we deal with it right away. I have the defense do the bend-thrusts (10) after plays where 1 player didn't run to the ball (hard enough), we had a mis-alignment, blown call, or missed assignment. It slows down practice in the beginning, but they get motivated to do it right. So, if I have a player who isn't with the team, the team gets the punishment . . .
8. If he is a discipline problem, don't punish him, punish the team. We remind the team that it is a team game and that we all suffer for the individuals. We will have the player being 'disciplined' lead the cadence for the team (and sit in a chair) while the team performs our version of up-downs (a 5-count bend-thrust). The team usually help motivate the player. Of course the expectations and consequences are understood up front. For example, during the off-season our players know they will be doing 50 bend-thrusts for every player who missed a practice unexcused.
9. I grade our film by position. I use a ++/+/ /-/-- scale and look at each player for each play. I watch the film with the team and review the comments. They know that negative scores are the result of effort and are not acceptable. I have a very good player who had 5 loafs and got double negatives (receiver jogging off the line) - and he will not be starting this week. You know, when I told him he lost his starting spot, he understood.
Anyway, I hope one or some of these techniques might work with your player.
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Post by Split50 on Sept 7, 2005 4:40:21 GMT -6
That is some great stuff, bulldog. I might add, never have a parent conference without the player being there. It is amazing how calm the meeting becomes.
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Post by amikell on Sept 7, 2005 6:14:03 GMT -6
Bulldog, I don't have any specific problems this year. all of our past attitude problems quite before the season started. I was just curious as to some other ways you handle problems. I try to always take the chance to pick people's brains when I think I might learn something.
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Post by PowerDown on Sept 8, 2005 6:49:43 GMT -6
Brophy,
Have you heard from your disgrunted grand father or the player ?
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Post by brophy on Sept 8, 2005 7:34:33 GMT -6
Yes sir.
I just got back from the meeting with the parents, the kid, the AD, and principal. Actually, it was the exact SAME meeting we had the previous night...
Grandpa argues that the kid is a D1 prospect and there's NO WAY he should be playing fullback, because it's, "not a very important position". He asked, "WHY would a kid that had 92 tackles last year be removed from that position to play FULLBACK!?"(The same kid, I had charted with 71 tackles and a 60% grade out from last year) He got all his reps during the summer camps at fullback / tailback and none at linebacker, but still assumed he'd be playing both ways. The player, we HAVE been repping, at linebacker this week. I've given him half the reps because of the player he was last year (knows the defense), but I don't see a way he's going to beat out the starter. If I had to bet, I don't see the starter at SOLB ever relenting from that position. Grandpa said he told this player, "If you get 100 tackles this year....I'll buy you a new car".... Okay.....what about the TEAM. I even tried to explain that he got ALL the reps at FULLBACK because it was so valuable....he would be "showcased" with two D1 offensive players!!
Grandparent couldn't be appeased. It's sad, though. The kid is shy, VERY smart, makes a much better scholar than a football player, and if given the chance to BE A KID, I'm sure he'd rather just be on the team, than worry about his stats....but his "environment" has led him to believe THAT's all that football is about.
We invited him (again) to our weekend parent-coaches get-together at a pizza shop where we review the game film...(didn't show up last week)
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Post by PowerDown on Sept 8, 2005 11:09:45 GMT -6
Did the AD and principal stand behind the coaching staff? I agree that the player is caught in the middle. Worst part of it all is that even if he was D1 material who's to say that coach is going to keep him at LB, if anything the move to FB would help his chances , shows that he is a versatile player.
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Post by brophy on Sept 8, 2005 11:16:17 GMT -6
Yep...sorry didn't mention that.
AD & Principal are 100% on board...said they wouldn't mind having "This" meeting every week in the event that Gramps just has to fume, but didn't feel it was any "indictment" on the coaching staff.
Gramps just wants to be able to have something to brag about at the Barber shop.
It was just sort of weird how the "issue" morphed into so many other "complaints".
Originally the question was; 1- Why isn't he playing linebacker? 2- Why was he replaced on offense (at fullback)?
Both questions were answered -> We are a two-platoon program, he got all his reps at fullback / H-back because he WAS the best candidate for the job and his impact on defense could be replaced.
He was replaced because he blew nearly every assignment at fullback.
Then the conversation turned to "our secondary sucks", "this kid isn't better than MY kid", "he had no business playing fullback", "if we don't play him at a position he was good at last year, we are hurting his recruiting standings (senior year)", "coaches are bad", "parents are frustrated with program".....on and on.
** would also like to thank you guys for allowing me to 'vent' on here from time to time and share experiences and ideas. Sometimes in a not-so-big coaching network here, I'm not afforded that luxury.
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Post by PowerDown on Sept 9, 2005 6:02:14 GMT -6
Glad to hear that the administration and AD stand behind their coaches. That's exactly what that parent wanted to change when he started talking about other positions and the"unhappy" parents.
No problem on the venting, most coaches have been through similiar situations and those coaches that haven't yet, most likely its just a matter of time, UNFORTUNATELY.
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Post by saintrad on Jan 25, 2006 9:36:49 GMT -6
wow..makes we want to stay an assistant coach forever
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Post by brophy on Jan 25, 2006 9:40:58 GMT -6
maybe out of guilt or what....but played the kid at "his position" sparringly in the season....he was just brutal.....
It's one thing when a kid tries and wants to be coached and wants to stand up for himself to improve - it's another thing when you expect things to be handed to you. He disappointed because he refused to be coached.
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scox80
Freshmen Member
If quitters never win, and winners never quit. Who is the fool who said quit while your ahead?
Posts: 91
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Post by scox80 on Jan 25, 2006 10:36:11 GMT -6
I think the main problem is obvious.......he doesn't belong. If they (him and his grandpa) are worried about him playing where THEY want him to, than they are detrimental to the overall devlopment of the team. Too much is already being discussed over one individual. The media will not be able to do anything here. If the rest of the team is seeing this and it has created locker room talk. The damage has already been done. And may cause for similar problems with other parents and their kids in the future. We would suspend him or cut him. Only on the preface that pour contracts states that the player and parent are both a part of the team and we expect the same attitudes from the parents as we do from the players. And any questions regarding playing time will be answered with explanations but will not be taken into a conversation as to what the parent thinks. This may be a little harsh but we caoch in a very rich area where parents are CEO's ex-49ers or star cal, stanford or UCLA players from back in the day. So some of thses parents like to flex their muscles to get what they want. So it works for us. We have player/parent contracts that nip any conversations or "secund guessing" in the butt before they start. We lay out our expectations and right above where they are supposed to sign...this is written in bold uppercase letters:
I understand what will be expected of me this fall and I join the team without reservation, regardless of the assignment given to me. I look forward to sharing the responsibility for Los Altos Football.
The parents and Child both sign here.
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Post by timtheenchanter on Jan 27, 2006 20:57:18 GMT -6
As I lurk on the board, I occasionally escape out of my cage and browse some of the threads that are over in the coaches section. This one made me laugh out loud. Not because it is funny, but because as officials we deal with the same thing. The kid was getting held, or didn't hold, or is misunderstood, or shouldn't have gotten pitched for fighting, or any number of other excuses. I have far more problems with parents than I do with coaches. Interesting to see that we deal with the same problems. In some odd, warped way, it is nice to know we aren't the only ones standing in the way of little Johnny's (5'6", 165 lbs, 5.4/40) Division IA career.
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 28, 2006 4:17:05 GMT -6
Interesting stuff...fortunately for you that you have a supportive AD and Principal...
I think someone on this board posted some really strong advice when they said they dealt with know it all parents (aka "agents") that gave coaching advice with some funny stuff...wouldnt it be great to just spout off....
"oh, hey thats great advice, now can you help me with our next oponnent, i want to go golfing on Sunday, could you please break down these 3 game tapes and compile a list of tendencies and also make the motivation bulliten boards for the guys? Btw, you need to be here at 6 am to turn the lights on as they take a while to warm up....also, one more thing...I keep wanting to call these other parents back about their gripes, think you could handle that for me? this one thinks his 5 foot 7 140 lb son who has never played football before should be our starting quarterback...this one wants to go to disneyland instead of football camp and this one is upset because I suspended his son for sexually harassing a cheerleader...." ....oh, and the boosters want to meet with you on Sunday evening to discuss the teams dinner on Thursday...you will probably have to leave the Youth Games a bit earlier to find time to eat dinner before you meet with boosters...look, i really appreciate you volunteering to coach for me this weekend...its great to catch a break."
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Post by gmccown on Jan 28, 2006 10:53:08 GMT -6
Coach: We had the same problem with a second stringer last year. His father thought he could beat any one of our starting O-line. (the kind happened to be about a foot shorter, 2 seconds slower, and he refused to learn his rules) The parent tried everything including standing outside the practice area (we have a parent boundry at practice) and chanting at the top of his lungs. He also tried to drop the race card at the end of season. (despite five of our 11 starters being african american and 2 others of various minority decent) we apparently didn't play his kid due to race. Then we were discriminating due to obesity. While this was a part of why he was denied playing time, it was not due to prejudice but do to the fact when he fell it took him the remainder of the play to get up, and when the rest of the team was downfield leading a play he would have covered about 5-10 yards and stopped. The fact is that every parent is Vince Lombardi and every player is Joe Montana and no matter what you say some can't be convinced otherwise. What's sad is this grand parent's actions must have made this kid look like a real a** to his teamates who don't get playing time.
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Post by brophy on Jan 28, 2006 12:26:49 GMT -6
I think someone on this board posted some really strong advice when they said they dealt with know it all parents (aka "agents") that gave coaching advice with some funny stuff...wouldnt it be great to just spout off.... here's a verbatim email received by a 'concerned fan'
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 28, 2006 15:13:43 GMT -6
yeah...thats the email....an absolute classic...that should be put into tee shirts and handed out at coaching clinics everywhere...i just love it.
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Post by coachdawhip on Jan 29, 2006 14:15:45 GMT -6
We had the same dilema where I'm at. It involves 4 of our 9th graders, whose parents believe they are ready for varsity when last year they weren't, they are no doubt going to be studs, but they complained the whole season and it only got worse because we lost our last 2 games 70-0.
They tried to have a secret meeting with the Principal w/o telling the HC, but he found and they pretty much had a hard time voicing really what their complaints were.
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Post by scfbfan on Jan 30, 2006 7:54:25 GMT -6
Hey Brophy that is a tough call. Clearly there needs to be a time to cool off for both Coach and Parent/Guardian. I know if I spoke after a game to a parent that is complaining, especially after a loss, I would have to bite my tongue. Generally the kids respect what we do and our decisions, it's the parents who are trying to live through their kids who don't. We include this in our Parents Packet. It is from a coach in Texas and is in the Football Coaching Bible. For the life of me I can't remeber his name. We quote him in our Parent Packet. I believe it is called "The Parent's Ten Don'ts" 1. Don’t try to live your life through your son. You had your chance to be young. Let your son do his thing. Don’t force football or any sport down his throat. 2. Don’t be negative with your son. It rubs off. If you complain about why your son isn’t in the starting lineup, he will do the same. Be positive. Motivate and encourage your son. 3. Don’t be unrealistic. The good Lord gave all of us certain abilities. Accept your son as he is. We would all like to be big, tall, handsome, intelligent, and strong, but it doesn’t happen that way. Accept what the Lord blessed you with and go on with your life. Make the best of it. It’s the same in football-someone may be bigger, faster, tougher, or smarter. Know your sons limitations and encourage him to make the best of it. Accept his role on the team. 4. Don’t knock the coaching staff. How can you expect your son to perform to his fullest if all he hears from you about the coach is negative? The coach represents authority. You will give your son the wrong message if you ridicule the coach or his teachers. Support the coach’s rules, philosophies, playbook, and so on. 5. Don’t be envious of other players. Treat each player as if he was your own son. Don’t dislike a player because you don’t like his parents. 6. Don’t be a know-it-all. Coaches work with youngsters 12 months of the year. They spend many hours with these youngsters in situations that their parents may never see. In some cases, coaches know more about the player than the parents do. Don’t exert pressure on your son by telling him things he shouldn’t have to hear. Be a good role model. Let the coaches’ coach. 7. Don’t be an absent parent. Monitor your son’s grades. Insist that your son study and earn good grades. If you put academics first, your son will be more successful. 8. Don’t neglect your son’s social activities. Monitor his friends, hangouts, girlfriend, curfew, language, rules and so on. Talk to your son about drugs, alcohol, and tobacco use. Encourage your son to make the right choices. If you don’t communicate well in these areas, the wrong people may influence your son. 9. Don’t be selfish. Don’t use football for the wrong reasons. Don’t push your son to play for a scholarship. Doing so pressures him unduly. If he is good enough, he will earn a scholarship. Let him play because he loves the game. 10. Don’t baby your son. Sever the umbilical cord. It’s a tough world out there. Let him begin preparing for it by not babying him. Let the coaches push your son. Let the coaches make him tougher mentally be challenging him. A youngster can learn mental toughness regardless of whether he plays.
This may not help you on a Friday night but may help you prior to this occuring. Parents are Parents. I always have to keep the kid in mind. He is the one being crippled by his parents. 99% of the time I feel they are in your corner, it's hard for them to leave you though and be put that type of environment at home. Trust me I have had my share of No-it-all parents.
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Post by scfbfan on Jan 31, 2006 18:52:37 GMT -6
____
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Post by brophy on Dec 13, 2006 13:32:24 GMT -6
[glow=red,2,300]Q: HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH 'GRIPING' PARENTS?
A: [/glow]
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Post by coachcalande on Dec 13, 2006 16:36:41 GMT -6
Is there a "decorum" for handling aggressive parents? Just wondering. We've had vociferous parents in the past, many during the games, some during season. We had one last night that challenged the staff (thankfully after practice) on why his grandson wasn't playing defense at LB instead of FB on offense. He went on to list his accomplishments from the last season on defense and after his miserable performance at FB in the last game, he shouldn't be playing offense - he should play defense. He went on to berate the "other" kids playing on defense, though the defense performed very well the previous game. We run a two-platoon and only 2-3 players actually go both ways. This guardian has threatened to; 1) pull his kid from the school /program, 2) go to the local media on why his kid isn't playing defense, 3) complain to the administration. He was invited to sit down and talk with the AD and HC today, and will likely not. Just an interesting "situation". best idea i have heard from any coach I worked for was telling kids "if your parents harass me, you dont play" "if you have them talk to me about playing time, you play less" "if your parents coach you from the stands, you sit with them"...something along those lines.
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Post by fbdoc on Dec 13, 2006 19:10:11 GMT -6
We do a powerpoint presentation every year at our school (I'm actually doing this year's tomorrow night!) called "How to get your kid an Athletic Scholarship." The title is somewhat tongue in cheek but we do go over just about everything from academics and SAT's to off season lifting and the all important genetic factor.
One of the first slides I show has the Height, Weight, and football Position of 25-30 nameless players. After I let the numbers sink in ... I let them know that these are the freshman signees from Florida Atlantic and Florida International. These are D-I schools but obviously not Florida, FSU, or Miami. It helps set the tone for the evening and lets parents see that there are no 5'8 and 205 lb. O-Linemen or LB's playing major college football.
We've actually had 3 kids go D-I but the majority of our kids are NAIA or D-III players. Our talk goes over the different levels, the FAFSA, and all the steps involved with getting little Johnny recruited. We just don't see those types of parents in our football program - however we DO have a couple in our baseball program...
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Post by hchscoachtom on Dec 13, 2006 19:13:56 GMT -6
Brophy, you crack me up! ;D ;D
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Post by djwesp on Dec 13, 2006 20:52:00 GMT -6
Does your association have limitations on volunteer coaches?
We've only had this problem (or in a major way) once. The HC made the parent a volunteer coach, and his thought process turned around pretty quickly. It didn't take much for him to see the light of what coaches actually have to do, how they have to prepare, and how his son really was just going to be role player in our program and nothing more.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 14, 2006 8:29:54 GMT -6
Here's my tried-and-true method for dealing with parents-
1. As a youth coach, I never take on dads as volunteers. Too much of a conflict of interest. There other parents really appreciate this as they know the staff will be a little more objective.
2. My opening speech of the year to the parents;
"My first responsibility and relationship is with the players; not you as parents. If there is a conflict or a problem, the player must discuss it with myself and the staff. If we recieve a call from a parent before the player has talked to us, we will not deal with it, period. There will not be any 3rd party involved when it comes to the coach-player relationship. We all have roles here; my staff and I are coaches, the kids are players, and we need you, the parents, to be supporters and polite spectators."
I have a few parents push me on this each year; I politely tell them to have their child come and talk to me and then I politely end the conversation. This may happen three or four times, but they'll eventually get tired of ramming their heads against the wall.
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