"Running Up the Score"

[fantom]

There was a thread asking coaches who have "run it up" what their justification was. Here's an article where a coach who won 78-0 explains himself. Thoughts?


www.recruit757.com/coaches-corner-explaining-78-0-win/

[blb]

He has a point, but although I don't think he's wrong, I don't do it the way he does.

[realdawg]

I'm ok with starters playing 1 series of 3rd qtr. But other kids deserve a chance to play too in blowouts. We have never been so good that starters hadn't played enough full games by the playoffs to be in game shape. So I wouldn't know anything about that.

[Defcord]

I read when James Franklin was asked about when he takes his starters out. He said if one got injured and he regretted that player being in then that's point where he will take them out.

To me if I were routinely blowing people out to the point where we missed multiple second halves then I would evaluate my schedule rather than leaving starters in for something bad to happen.

[fantom]

Oct 16, 2014 9:51:24 GMT -6 Defcord said:

I read when James Franklin was asked about when he takes his starters out. He said if one got injured and he regretted that player being in then that's point where he will take them out.

To me if I were routinely blowing people out to the point where we missed multiple second halves then I would evaluate my schedule rather than leaving starters in for something bad to happen.

This team plays in a ten team, league so that's not an option. 

[Defcord]

Oct 16, 2014 9:58:47 GMT -6 fantom said:

Oct 16, 2014 9:51:24 GMT -6 Defcord said:

I read when James Franklin was asked about when he takes his starters out. He said if one got injured and he regretted that player being in then that's point where he will take them out.

To me if I were routinely blowing people out to the point where we missed multiple second halves then I would evaluate my schedule rather than leaving starters in for something bad to happen.

This team plays in a ten team, league so that's not an option. 

That changes my opinion a little. It's hard for both ends of a spectrum for teams in gridlocked conferences to do what's best to take their programs to the next level.

[CoachBrownAZ]

He didn't owe anyone an explanation. That just averages out to 3 TD's a quarter.. between defense and special teams that is extremely modest in HS football when a very good team plays a struggling team. It's a non issue with sensitive parents if you ask me. We are letting the "pink ribbon" people ruin our game coaches. Stand up for your players and teach them to play football the right way. If your 3rd string RB scores from 70 out not your fault.

[spos21ram]

I wasn't coaching here yet, but in 2002 our varsity team blew teams out all the time and our coach always took the starters out at half time. In the state championship game they lost and just werent in sink. I definitely think it was partially do to the starters never playing a complete game. They beat the team earlier in the season by a couple touchdowns.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards

[coachwilcox]

Would be interested to know who "called him out from within" to make him feel he needed to address this publicly.

I personally feel blowouts are a touchy subject for this generation of coaches because of societies stresses they put on us to win, but not win by too much.

It is a thin line between getting your players to play to "your standard" regardless of situation, and when to lay off the opponent.

Personally, I teach my players to play to our standard, no matter what the score, up big, down big, or in a tight game. We have a very limited roster numbers wise and have found ourselves in games this year where it was obvious we were the better team, but it was way to early to pull our starters (for we could literally lose a 30 point lead by replacing them with 7th and 8th graders). My play calling then became very bland (power, zone (inside and outside), etc.) and the teams we were playing would just send the house, and bring more defenders than we had blockers, thus putting my starters in harms way, aka injury.

Its just not a good situation for anyone. If we continued to run our offense and would make them honor our passing game, then we would be much less likely to get hurt, but we would score 70 - 100 points and of course I would be the villain.

[CoachBrownAZ]

Oct 16, 2014 10:29:01 GMT -6 coachwilcox said:

Would be interested to know who "called him out from within" to make him feel he needed to address this publicly.

I personally feel blowouts are a touchy subject for this generation of coaches because of societies stresses they put on us to win, but not win by too much.

It is a thin line between getting your players to play to "your standard" regardless of situation, and when to lay off the opponent.

Personally, I teach my players to play to our standard, no matter what the score, up big, down big, or in a tight game. We have a very limited roster numbers wise and have found ourselves in games this year where it was obvious we were the better team, but it was way to early to pull our starters (for we could literally lose a 30 point lead by replacing them with 7th and 8th graders). My play calling then became very bland (power, zone (inside and outside), etc.) and the teams we were playing would just send the house, and bring more defenders than we had blockers, thus putting my starters in harms way, aka injury.

Its just not a good situation for anyone. If we continued to run our offense and would make them honor our passing game, then we would be much less likely to get hurt, but we would score 70 - 100 points and of course I would be the villain.

Well said coach.  It's your standard regardless of score.  If the other coach knows his team isn't better than it's his responsibility to manage the expectations of his team parents and fans.  I've been on both ends of the blowout argument and I handle both like a professional and teach my athletes to do the same.  It's not the other teams fault that you could not tackle ISO in the 4th quarter.  

[mariner42]

It's not quite a Walter from The Big Lebowski situation of " you're not wrong, you're just an @sshole", but I do feel like his reasoning is pretty weak.

I always talk about how we want the hardest team we see every week to be our own guys in practice, clearly this is the case for that program most weeks. I would say it is up to him to find a way to keep his team ready for their playoff run without having to okay his 1s in a blowout game.

Talk about "first world problems"... "Oh no, we beat everyone too bad in the regular season that we aren't as ready as we could be for playoffs"

[fantom]

Oct 16, 2014 12:20:17 GMT -6 mariner42 said:

It's not quite a Walter from The Big Lebowski situation of " you're not wrong, you're just an @sshole", but I do feel like his reasoning is pretty weak.

I always talk about how we want the hardest team we see every week to be our own guys in practice, clearly this is the case for that program most weeks. I would say it is up to him to find a way to keep his team ready for their playoff run without having to okay his 1s in a blowout game.

Talk about "first world problems"... "Oh no, we beat everyone too bad in the regular season that we aren't as ready as we could be for playoffs"

The "Haves" may have different problems that the "Have nots" but they still have problems". I've been in this situation and this is a legitimate concern. 

[coachfloyd]

I can speak from bad experience on this. First game this year we are up 36-0 on our cross town rival at halftime. I fully expected to have a running clock the second half and be home in 30 minutes. We come out with no running clock, they are throwing all over the place, and we are cramping up all over the field(we ran 40 plays in the first half and it was still in the 90's with high humidity in the second half.) We lost all but one running back to cramps at one point and our DB's started grabbing their hamstrings after every play. Scoring for them would have happened in a hurry against backups. My best player who scored 4 tds in the first half got back at the bginning of the 4th quarter. They had just scored and we couldn't move the ball, had linemen cramping, and I was thinking man this thing could turn around quick if we have to end up playing our JV. I wanted one more score and then I was pulling everybody. He broke his leg on his last carry. Done for the season. Would we have won anyway if we had started subbing? Probably. Would it have been the longest night of my life? Probably. Still would do the same thing.

[spos21ram]

Oct 16, 2014 12:20:17 GMT -6 mariner42 said:

It's not quite a Walter from The Big Lebowski situation of " you're not wrong, you're just an @sshole", but I do feel like his reasoning is pretty weak.

I always talk about how we want the hardest team we see every week to be our own guys in practice, clearly this is the case for that program most weeks. I would say it is up to him to find a way to keep his team ready for their playoff run without having to okay his 1s in a blowout game.

Talk about "first world problems"... "Oh no, we beat everyone too bad in the regular season that we aren't as ready as we could be for playoffs"

If he truly believes what he is saying (it's a legit reason), then I don't believe at all that it's "weak". If he just wanted to run up the score and had to come up with an excuse then I'd agree with you. To me though it looks like this coach is sincere and believes in his philosophy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards

[resdeal]

How about this. We were up 49-0 at half vs an 0-6 team. We have 30 players and there is a big difference between our top 15 and our bottom 15. We come out after half and put in our JV on offense, defense, and special teams. They leave in the varsity, score 4 touchdowns and onside kick 5 times ( we got the ball to start the second half). We won 49-28. I personally wouldn't do that. If one team calls off the dogs, I really think both should. To each their own though.

[coachwoodall]

1- There are pressures for all teams to win; some simply to get off the field with the W, others it's the perception of how the W is achieved.
2- Our job is to coach our team, not our opponent's.
3- You can't judge a game by the score, and seldom from the box score. Unless you are there, you never know the story. Unless you are coaching that team, you don't know the intent.
4- Coaches are like anyone else. Some coaches are great guys, some are peckerheads.
5- The game is meant to be played. I hate running clocks. The rooster poops deserve to have all the snaps under the lights they can get.

I been on both ends of of 75+ to nothing games. Can you tell when one team is trying to run up the score? Probably. But don't ever get your hackles up over having to tote an arse whuppin. My job is to coach my kids in the situation that they are working through.

We've won a game 63-0 and we were up 49-0 after 2:45 of play and had only ran 9 offensive snaps, and 56-0 at half and had kneeled out the clock before half inside the 20. It was a cascade of event that got us the 49-0, but our fans still almost lynched us for kneeling before half.

We've had 5+ TDs lead in a game and the other team was running up and down the field but couldn't punch it in and the ball kept bouncing our way. Our back up HB ran the buck sweep for 80 yards to go up 68-21 and all we were trying to do was get in the back ups in and run out the clock.

We have been the proverbial one legged man in a butt kicking contest on a 0-75 butt cutting, where the other team kept their staring offense in the entire game and where throwing fade routes with less than a minute to play.

We beat a team 84-7 and tried to get them to agree to a running clock in the second half, but their HC didn't want to take away any chances to get his kids some snaps.

In all these situations, all I cared about was trying to get my guys to play to their potential. If you try to embarrass us, then I'm going to use that to try and teach my kids a lesson that hopefully will make them better.

If we are teaching our kids to:
-have no regrets
-play to their potential
-over come adversity
-make our toughest opponent ourselves
-give a 110%
-etc.....

Why do we keep having this conversation? Let's go play some ball, and let the chips fall where they may.

[dubber]

Another facet to this is it usually the ADMINISTRATION who hears it from parents.

Probably a good idea to make sure THEY are on board with your blow out strategy.

As to this situation, I have no problem with it.

[ccscoach]

I don't think they did anything wrong if the other team worked harder and prepared better they wouldn't get beat like that if there players are that much better maybe they need to do more in the off season. We play are starters into the first series of the 3rd no matter what the score. We on sides kick and will fake punts and do everything we can up until that point. We don't dumb down the offense or anything with second group and expect them to play like are starters. The only thing we will do differently is not be as aggressive on special teams.

We try not to score over 70.....was up 70 to 14 with seconds in running clock and 4 minutes to go in the 4th started to take 3 knees and punt this was against a struggling program and a very good friend mine. He was grateful.

Have also beat a team 80-6.....are league rival my first year at a struggling program up 35-0 faked a punt on us with a minute to go. Two years later the JV team I played them with were seniors and got a little revenge...We did take a knee at the 3 yard line with seconds left are starting guard had a great quote "they couldn't stop us so we had to stop ourselves"....

[dubber]

Oct 19, 2014 5:18:10 GMT -6 ccscoach said:

I don't think they did anything wrong if the other team worked harder and prepared better they wouldn't get beat like that if there players are that much better maybe they need to do more in the off season. We play are starters into the first series of the 3rd no matter what the score. We on sides kick and will fake punts and do everything we can up until that point. We don't dumb down the offense or anything with second group and expect them to play like are starters. The only thing we will do differently is not be as aggressive on special teams.

We try not to score over 70.....was up 70 to 14 with seconds in running clock and 4 minutes to go in the 4th started to take 3 knees and punt this was against a struggling program and a very good friend mine. He was grateful.

Have also beat a team 80-6.....are league rival my first year at a struggling program up 35-0 faked a punt on us with a minute to go. Two years later the JV team I played them with were seniors and got a little revenge...We did take a knee at the 3 yard line with seconds left are starting guard had a great quote "they couldn't stop us so we had to stop ourselves"....

Not sure it is always the case that the other team "didn't work/prepare hard enough".   Sometimes, there is a gap regardless of work ethic.

[ccscoach]

Well there can be but most of the time it's obvious whose kids are committed to the weight room and whose aren't. I'm just saying discipline hard working kids who are committed in the off season won't usually get beat 78-0.

[dubber]

Here's something I am sure many may agree with......

If we were getting blasted, downing the ball 3 times and punting back to us would be salt in the wound.

I just think we shouldn't get so caught up in numbers on a board.

Do you know how long it takes a 16 year old to get over a 70-0 loss?

About a night's sleep.

There have been SEVERAL times where we lose big and win the next week.

Worst loss I have taken as a coach was 66-0. We came out the next week and beat a decent team 36-0.

As coaches, there really isn't a difference between 42-0 and 91-0. We sometimes worry about if another team is being respectful in how they conduct the blowout, but by and large, it doesn't matter.

The only people who care are parents.

I don't care about anything else they have to say, so why start with this?

[dubber]

Oct 19, 2014 7:49:05 GMT -6 ccscoach said:

Well there can be but most of the time it's obvious whose kids are committed to the weight room and whose aren't. I'm just saying discipline hard working kids who are committed in the off season won't usually get beat 78-0.

We agree here.

[spos21ram]

I'd rather a team throw a Fade up 50-0 on me than take a knee three times and punt with 5 minutes left in the game.

[coachcotner]

Oct 19, 2014 8:24:45 GMT -6 spos21ram said:

I'd rather a team throw a Fade up 50-0 on me than take a knee three times and punt with 5 minutes left in the game.

This. I have stated on here multiple times that I don't get the complaining about "running it up". If you do not like it then stop. If you can't stop it then get better so it doesn't happen again. 

[paulfrantz]

I disagree with his reasoning. Yes there is a difference between game reps and practice reps, but my team is prepared to play a full game from our practices. How is 3 qtrs. better than 2? If that is why, then why not play all 4? How is that helping when it's against a team that you beat 78-0? Are you really getting quality reps that will "prepare" you? I've been on both sides of these games. If you coach long enough you will. I'm not against what he did. In my opinion my starters are usually the harder workers in the weight room and in practice, they deserve at least 3. I agree, I would rather you just play then take a knee 3 times and punt. to me that would be more of an insult. Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with what he did, I just think his reasoning is a little sketchy

[fantom]

Oct 19, 2014 10:50:49 GMT -6 paulfrantz said:

I disagree with his reasoning. Yes there is a difference between game reps and practice reps, but my team is prepared to play a full game from our practices. How is 3 qtrs. better than 2? If that is why, then why not play all 4? How is that helping when it's against a team that you beat 78-0? Are you really getting quality reps that will "prepare" you? I've been on both sides of these games. If you coach long enough you will. I'm not against what he did. In my opinion my starters are usually the harder workers in the weight room and in practice, they deserve at least 3. I agree, I would rather you just play then take a knee 3 times and punt. to me that would be more of an insult. Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with what he did, I just think his reasoning is a little sketchy

If you only win a blowout once or twice, you're right. If you have a really dominant team there really is a risk that the starters don't play four quarters and don't know how to do it when they need to. It doesn't happen often and it's a nice problem to have but it can be a problem. 

[coachwilcox]

Oct 17, 2014 22:51:13 GMT -6 coachwoodall said:

1- There are pressures for all teams to win; some simply to get off the field with the W, others it's the perception of how the W is achieved.
2- Our job is to coach our team, not our opponent's.
3- You can't judge a game by the score, and seldom from the box score. Unless you are there, you never know the story. Unless you are coaching that team, you don't know the intent.
4- Coaches are like anyone else. Some coaches are great guys, some are peckerheads.
5- The game is meant to be played. I hate running clocks. The rooster poops deserve to have all the snaps under the lights they can get.

I been on both ends of of 75+ to nothing games. Can you tell when one team is trying to run up the score? Probably. But don't ever get your hackles up over having to tote an arse whuppin. My job is to coach my kids in the situation that they are working through.

We've won a game 63-0 and we were up 49-0 after 2:45 of play and had only ran 9 offensive snaps, and 56-0 at half and had kneeled out the clock before half inside the 20. It was a cascade of event that got us the 49-0, but our fans still almost lynched us for kneeling before half.

We've had 5+ TDs lead in a game and the other team was running up and down the field but couldn't punch it in and the ball kept bouncing our way. Our back up HB ran the buck sweep for 80 yards to go up 68-21 and all we were trying to do was get in the back ups in and run out the clock.

We have been the proverbial one legged man in a butt kicking contest on a 0-75 butt cutting, where the other team kept their staring offense in the entire game and where throwing fade routes with less than a minute to play.

We beat a team 84-7 and tried to get them to agree to a running clock in the second half, but their HC didn't want to take away any chances to get his kids some snaps.

In all these situations, all I cared about was trying to get my guys to play to their potential. If you try to embarrass us, then I'm going to use that to try and teach my kids a lesson that hopefully will make them better.

If we are teaching our kids to:
-have no regrets
-play to their potential
-over come adversity
-make our toughest opponent ourselves
-give a 110%
-etc.....

Why do we keep having this conversation? Let's go play some ball, and let the chips fall where they may.

Great stuff coach!

[blb]

We are going to play the "game deciders" until the game is decided.

My definition of the game being decided is running clock or one team ahead by three scores in 4th Quarter.

Exception to that is an opposing head coach who doesn't "surrender" - leaves his 1st defense in to blitz the crap out of our back-ups, or his 1st offense and keeps bombing away to build up their stats.

[WTR]

I understand it from both sides. My philosophy is to never embarrass an opposing team or coach. Especially if that other team is outmatched. What does that prove? You've got better athletes than them? That other coach has a wife, kids, and administration to answer to as well. I also believe in karma and what goes around comes around. I've been on that other side of a blowout several times and it's not fun.

[paulfrantz]

Oct 19, 2014 12:44:49 GMT -6 fantom said:

Oct 19, 2014 10:50:49 GMT -6 paulfrantz said:

I disagree with his reasoning. Yes there is a difference between game reps and practice reps, but my team is prepared to play a full game from our practices. How is 3 qtrs. better than 2? If that is why, then why not play all 4? How is that helping when it's against a team that you beat 78-0? Are you really getting quality reps that will "prepare" you? I've been on both sides of these games. If you coach long enough you will. I'm not against what he did. In my opinion my starters are usually the harder workers in the weight room and in practice, they deserve at least 3. I agree, I would rather you just play then take a knee 3 times and punt. to me that would be more of an insult. Don't get me wrong I don't have a problem with what he did, I just think his reasoning is a little sketchy

If you only win a blowout once or twice, you're right. If you have a really dominant team there really is a risk that the starters don't play four quarters and don't know how to do it when they need to. It doesn't happen often and it's a nice problem to have but it can be a problem. 

We're 8-1 and our point differential is 494-128. We've had 6 running clocks. The 2 games my 1's played in the 4th quarter we didn't have an issue with conditioning.