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Post by tripsclosed on Nov 18, 2024 9:48:43 GMT -6
IMO, it depends on whether or not Sanders can actually build a program. Not just a grab-bag of talent from the transfer portal every year. I don't really think he's built a solid foundation through recruiting but I could be wrong. if this were 1998- I would say that makes sense. In 2024 I need to wonder if anyone is going to build a program. Or will it be more like the NFL where Success fluctuates from year to year- aka the bengals the 49ers , the rams, dallas etc. It's just wild to me how much people bag on the transient personnel model (and a lot of that criticism from peo9le is directed at Sanders), it's like have you literally never seen a season of professional sports?? And particularly, the NFL? Lol. This is how it's gonna be with the transfer portal and NIL (and hopefully down the road, free agency and full salaries for players). |
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Post by silkyice on Nov 18, 2024 10:29:23 GMT -6
IMO, it depends on whether or not Sanders can actually build a program. Not just a grab-bag of talent from the transfer portal every year. I don't really think he's built a solid foundation through recruiting but I could be wrong. if this were 1998- I would say that makes sense. In 2024 I need to wonder if anyone is going to build a program. Or will it be more like the NFL where Success fluctuates from year to year- aka the bengals the 49ers , the rams, dallas etc. Agree on don't have to necessarily build a "program". Disagree on the fluctuations. There is no draft. Of course there will be fluctuations, just for different reasons. NCAA is literally professional AAU basketball now. |
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Post by silkyice on Nov 18, 2024 10:34:59 GMT -6
By the way, I don't think Sanders making Auburn great was a sure thing. I put it at 40% national championship contender, 40% at where Auburn is now (which is a disaster for Auburn - but also common, ha), 10% at worse, 10% at better than now, but still not really a championship contender.
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 18, 2024 11:05:03 GMT -6
if this were 1998- I would say that makes sense. In 2024 I need to wonder if anyone is going to build a program. Or will it be more like the NFL where Success fluctuates from year to year- aka the bengals the 49ers , the rams, dallas etc. Agree on don't have to necessarily build a "program". Disagree on the fluctuations. There is no draft. Of course there will be fluctuations, just for different reasons. NCAA is literally professional AAU basketball now. I think that the fact that a team went from number four or five in the country to one win is somewhat unprecedented. That’s what I mean by fluctuations. For example, it took Nebraska a while to fall from mid 90s Zenith to solid program (But underachieving for Nebraska standards) to a lesser program by any standard. Florida State did it in nine months. |
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Post by silkyice on Nov 18, 2024 15:52:05 GMT -6
Agree on don't have to necessarily build a "program". Disagree on the fluctuations. There is no draft. Of course there will be fluctuations, just for different reasons. NCAA is literally professional AAU basketball now. I think that the fact that a team went from number four or five in the country to one win is somewhat unprecedented. That’s what I mean by fluctuations. For example, it took Nebraska a while to fall from mid 90s Zenith to solid program (But underachieving for Nebraska standards) to a lesser program by any standard. Florida State did it in nine months. I will agree. I do bet there is probably another close example through the years, but, yes, this is pretty crazy. BUT, could this also be blamed on the playoffs a little? Since they got snubbed after going 13-0 and winning the ACC. Either way or a combination of both, it still means the "current times" contributed or caused the downfall. |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 18, 2024 17:50:07 GMT -6
I think that the fact that a team went from number four or five in the country to one win is somewhat unprecedented. That’s what I mean by fluctuations. For example, it took Nebraska a while to fall from mid 90s Zenith to solid program (But underachieving for Nebraska standards) to a lesser program by any standard. Florida State did it in nine months. I will agree. I do bet there is probably another close example through the years, but, yes, this is pretty crazy. BUT, could this also be blamed on the playoffs a little? Since they got snubbed after going 13-0 and winning the ACC. Either way or a combination of both, it still means the "current times" contributed or caused the downfall. Didn't a large portion of that FSU team graduate/leave for the NFL? That explains the drop far more than college football being Deionized. |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 18, 2024 17:53:36 GMT -6
A quick query shows 10 players drafted into the NFL. Only 5 portal guys ended up at a D1 school.
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Post by Defcord on Nov 18, 2024 18:14:24 GMT -6
Anyone think Sanders tries to get a gig in NFL with Shedeur?
Hasn’t he followed him through youth, high school and college?
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 18, 2024 18:50:57 GMT -6
Anyone think Sanders tries to get a gig in NFL with Shedeur? Hasn’t he followed him through youth, high school and college? I certainly don't think he's long for Colorado. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 19, 2024 0:13:38 GMT -6
A quick query shows 10 players drafted into the NFL. Only 5 portal guys ended up at a D1 school. Curious where you got that info. From 247 it shows 22 outgoing transfers 20 to Division 1 schools. I wouldn't say that college football has been "Deionized". I would say that Deion is simply reacting to the changing landscape. Heck, I bet Sanders would rather the landscape be like it was in the 80s and 90s- because he knows that CU can't keep up with "collectives" from Ohio State, Texas, Tex Am, etc. |
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Post by blb on Nov 19, 2024 5:34:48 GMT -6
Anyone think Sanders tries to get a gig in NFL with Shedeur? Hasn’t he followed him through youth, high school and college? Deion has been quoted more than once as saying he doesn't want to coach in the NFL. People can change their minds however. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 23, 2024 12:38:07 GMT -6
You seem like it. What do you want people to say about him? He's done a good job? Sure. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. What more do you want? I just find it curious that a guy who in two years has gone from 1-11 to on the verge of a conference championship game and potential CFP birth garners the reaction of "eh, well, he hasn't really shown me enough" Particularly from other coaches on a website with numerous posts almost begging for sympathy or affirmation because the general public is critical of their own performance. I mean even if they falter the next two weeks and finish 8-4, it has been an outstanding accomplishment. I am fairly certain other coaches wouldn't be met with "well, let's see what they are doing in a few more years" type of responses, nor will they get the "i told you so" reactions should CU lose the next few games either. |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 23, 2024 20:30:52 GMT -6
You seem like it. What do you want people to say about him? He's done a good job? Sure. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. What more do you want? I just find it curious that a guy who in two years has gone from 1-11 to on the verge of a conference championship game and potential CFP birth garners the reaction of "eh, well, he hasn't really shown me enough" Particularly from other coaches on a website with numerous posts almost begging for sympathy or affirmation because the general public is critical of their own performance. I mean even if they falter the next two weeks and finish 8-4, it has been an outstanding accomplishment. I am fairly certain other coaches wouldn't be met with "well, let's see what they are doing in a few more years" type of responses, nor will they get the "i told you so" reactions should CU lose the next few games either. What the {censored} do you want? For us to jerk off over this complete egomaniac dickhead? Everyone loves to point out 1-11, but they went to a bowl game 2 years before that. He didn't take over the early 80s Northwestern. He has really good sons and a uber talented adopted son. He hasn't shown he can do much more than ride their talent. Side note- watching one of their games earlier this year, they said of Travis Hunter- "He doesn't practice much with the team these days." Wtf does that even mean? |
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Post by tripsclosed on Nov 23, 2024 20:50:54 GMT -6
I just find it curious that a guy who in two years has gone from 1-11 to on the verge of a conference championship game and potential CFP birth garners the reaction of "eh, well, he hasn't really shown me enough" Particularly from other coaches on a website with numerous posts almost begging for sympathy or affirmation because the general public is critical of their own performance. I mean even if they falter the next two weeks and finish 8-4, it has been an outstanding accomplishment. I am fairly certain other coaches wouldn't be met with "well, let's see what they are doing in a few more years" type of responses, nor will they get the "i told you so" reactions should CU lose the next few games either. What the {censored} do you want? For us to jerk off over this complete egomaniac dickhead? Everyone loves to point out 1-11, but they went to a bowl game 2 years before that. He didn't take over the early 80s Northwestern. He has really good sons and a uber talented adopted son. He hasn't shown he can do much more than ride their talent. Side note- watching one of their games earlier this year, they said of Travis Hunter- "He doesn't practice much with the team these days." Wtf does that even mean? If you will look back through what coachd5085 and I think at least or two others in this 10 page thread have said, they aren't asking you or anyone else to bow down to him, they just want him to be given a fair shot, which in many cases is not what he is being given, and instead people are quick to criticize, yes be "haters", even say stuff like "man I love it when Colorado loses." There's a middle ground between bowing down and being quick to criticize, to be had, which is to give him a fair shot, if he bolts and retires after Shedeur and Travis leave, oh well, so what? Lol. Like what is there to lose in giving him a fair shot? |
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Post by Defcord on Nov 23, 2024 21:21:57 GMT -6
I just find it curious that a guy who in two years has gone from 1-11 to on the verge of a conference championship game and potential CFP birth garners the reaction of "eh, well, he hasn't really shown me enough" Particularly from other coaches on a website with numerous posts almost begging for sympathy or affirmation because the general public is critical of their own performance. I mean even if they falter the next two weeks and finish 8-4, it has been an outstanding accomplishment. I am fairly certain other coaches wouldn't be met with "well, let's see what they are doing in a few more years" type of responses, nor will they get the "i told you so" reactions should CU lose the next few games either. What the {censored} do you want? For us to jerk off over this complete egomaniac dickhead? Everyone loves to point out 1-11, but they went to a bowl game 2 years before that. He didn't take over the early 80s Northwestern. He has really good sons and a uber talented adopted son. He hasn't shown he can do much more than ride their talent. Side note- watching one of their games earlier this year, they said of Travis Hunter- "He doesn't practice much with the team these days." Wtf does that even mean? The Amazon show showed some of the practice stuff, where his son and hunter didn’t participate fully in practice. He kind of lost me there and I stopped watching the series. That coupled with some of the cracks he took at the offensive line at various points over the last two years made me not a huge fan. I don’t remember the specifics of the episode with those kids not practicing but it was definitely odd to me. The guy has won some games and in my opinion has done better than expected. I’m not a fan but I understand why some people are. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 23, 2024 21:55:20 GMT -6
As I mentioned, I am not really a Deion Fan. From what he has shown, I don't emulate his style. That said, I am also not coaching Big-12 football in 2024.
My point in almost all of this has just been my surprise at :
first, the many posts claiming that he wouldn't be a good coach because he was a great athlete and played corner
Then after the seasons serious roster turn over leading many proclaim that was evidence that Sanders was a mistake and to predict this upcoming season would be a disaster. Now, after a great start the refrain is "Well, lets wait and see how it looks long term"
I don't have a problem with people not liking him, and actively hoping for his failure. People that know him seem to like him, but from a distance, he absolutely seems like an arrogant "me" guy. He is clearly not in the mold of College coaches from the 50s- say 2010. lol
I just get surprised by the reasons people think it would happen, and the moving goalposts to evaluate his performance.
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Post by brophy on Nov 25, 2024 9:05:16 GMT -6
think however you like about the coach at Colorado, but I think we can all agree that he IS doing one of the most important things as a coach, which is BE YOURSELF. Act and conduct yourself to the authentic person that you are and do it your way (where you can). Right or wrong, the guy coaching Colorado certainly conducts himself to who he is as a person. Part of who he is may be a false character, but that is who the person has always been. Hats off to him and program for winning. He represents a lot of things that doesn't align with the majority of coaches, but its important to quantify specifically where you have an issue. I think from the onset, most unknowingly had a problem with him doing things that would upset the FOOTBALL GODS. There were certain dues to pay in coaching, a pecking order in all things (staff, lineup) and being cavalier with organization is something we all probably cringe because we know what the retribution of the Gods would be. Perhaps these things don't mean as much as we've regarded them to be all along. That would be considerable culture shock to our ingrained sensibilities, but not an indictment of the Colorado coach, at all, but we're unconsciously attributing that 'disgust' to him. That didn't happen in 2024. Things went their way when it mattered (and thats all that matters). As coaches, when a big turnaround happens at a program, everyone wants to emulate that success. They become darlings of the clinic circuit. Does anyone think coaches are clamoring for a CU offense / CU defense / CU special teams clinic with breakout session? Maybe this plays into tripsclosed threads about "too much"? A clinic on all the things CU refuses to do, rather than what they do do. |
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Post by bulldogsdc on Nov 25, 2024 9:21:47 GMT -6
I think some guys don't like him because he is a loud successful black guy.
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Post by brophy on Nov 25, 2024 10:02:39 GMT -6
I think some guys don't like him because he is a loud successful black guy. well, he IS loud, successful and last I checked, 'black'. so if anyone doesn't like him, I guess they're racists. simple enough Do you think those coaches that don't like the CU coach also don't like a host of other {shared demographic} coaches or just this one? This is where it helps to quantify the specifics. Many don't like his personality but then merge that into his scheme or philosophy or religious beliefs. Its important, no matter what position you hold, to be very clear in the specifics. Instead of applying "good/bad" then work our way backwards. |
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Post by pitt1980 on Nov 25, 2024 10:35:07 GMT -6
Coach, after seeing how this year has gone, I think it is possible that we are starting to see the dynamics in CFB change. Ohio St. and Texas are probably the only traditional powers this year who have been dominant week after week (and OSU's status is still TBD because of their schedule), and with the amount of upsets we have seen, and how much UGA and Bama have struggled, I think the transfer portal and NIL have made a largely positive impact on parity (you'd think the opposite because you'd expect Texas and Texas A&M's oil money to just buy up the 200 best players in the nation, but that's not what's happened in reality, and look at FSU, 12 mil in NIL and what do they have to show for it??). At some point though, there probably does need to be a "salary cap" put on each team's NIL funds to prevent the collectives with the deepest pockets from just outbidding everyone else (it hasn't happened yet like I said, but someone eventually is going to push it to the limit). I think you include Oregon in the traditional powers group. It's been 30 years of them being nationally relevant, and that Nike money isn't going anywhere. Not to be too morbid about it, but Phil Knight is 86, exactly how committed will his heirs be to using the family fortune to prop up a college football team? Someone mentioned a couple of posts above how Oklahoma State's been down this year, its been a few years since they have an especially relevant team in the playoff conversation. I don't know any of the specific details, but T Boone Pickens passed away in 2019, it seems entirely possible that his heirs aren't quite as committed to keeping Oklahoma State football as flush with cash as he was. |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 25, 2024 11:06:17 GMT -6
I think you include Oregon in the traditional powers group. It's been 30 years of them being nationally relevant, and that Nike money isn't going anywhere. Not to be too morbid about it, but Phil Knight is 86, exactly how committed will his heirs be to using the family fortune to prop up a college football team? Someone mentioned a couple of posts above how Oklahoma State's been down this year, its been a few years since they have an especially relevant team in the playoff conversation. I don't know any of the specific details, but T Boone Pickens passed away in 2019, it seems entirely possible that his heirs aren't quite as committed to keeping Oklahoma State football as flush with cash as he was. I know Knight is the driving force behind supporting Oregon, but they've almost become a corporate team. Nike is so interwoven in that school, it's essentially Nike U. I think they'll keep the connection for if no other reason, product development. |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 25, 2024 11:11:21 GMT -6
And as far as OSU. They went 12-2 in 21 and 10-4 last year. Recency bias is a MFer.
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 25, 2024 11:16:34 GMT -6
I think some guys don't like him because he is a loud successful black guy. There it is. |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 25, 2024 11:29:08 GMT -6
I think some guys don't like him because he is a loud successful black guy. well, he IS loud, successful and last I checked, 'black'. so if anyone doesn't like him, I guess they're racists. simple enough Do you think those coaches that don't like the CU coach also don't like a host of other {shared demographic} coaches or just this one? This is where it helps to quantify the specifics. Many don't like his personality but then merge that into his scheme or philosophy or religious beliefs. Its important, no matter what position you hold, to be very clear in the specifics. Instead of applying "good/bad" then work our way backwards. Nope. Not possible. If you don't like someone black in America in 2024, it's because you're an obvious racist. Doesn't matter if he is a dick head, did something unspeakable to you or your family, disagree with your opinions, or even if you're black yourself, you're racist. Don't like a black female for all the same reasons? You're racist AND misoginist. Even if you're a black male. See the election results. |
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Post by blb on Nov 25, 2024 11:36:41 GMT -6
And as far as OSU. They went 12-2 in 21 and 10-4 last year. Recency bias is a MFer. After awhile, no matter what you've done, how good a guy or how good a coach you are, they just want somebody else. |
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Post by bulldogsdc on Nov 25, 2024 11:48:35 GMT -6
Name other loud successful black coaches.... If you like Kirby and not Deion then?  |
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 25, 2024 11:51:21 GMT -6
Name other loud successful black coaches.... If you like Kirby and not Deion then? Who said I like Kirby Smart? |
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Post by pitt1980 on Nov 25, 2024 12:03:28 GMT -6
Name other loud successful black coaches.... If you like Kirby and not Deion then? Larry Moe's on record as disliking loudmouth coaches of all races and creeds (see PJ Fleck) |
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Post by raider92 on Nov 25, 2024 12:09:55 GMT -6
It's long in the past now but when he arrived at Colorado and told the entire roster that they need to pack up and go elsewhere he really lost me.
Most of the guys hopping in the portal don't ever catch on with any team. Those guys certainly didn't have teams beating down the doors to take them. I'm guessing many of those guys never played again.
A coach who came in and told the guys he loved them, wanted to coach them up, and made them into a winner would engender a lot more praise and admiration from his peers in the coaching community.
I'm also not naive enough to think that Deion is the only guy doing that. Gutting the roster and bringing in new guys is just the way it goes now so I guess the point I'm getting at isn't that I necessarily dislike Deion but that I dislike the way CFB is going and Deion is a very public-facing embodiment of that in some ways and I suspect a lot of other guys feel the same way.
Also, it's not a race thing. I dislike the white coaches who give the salesman vibe just as much.
I find myself being a lot more interested in the FCS and D2 ball in my area now. It's just football without all the extra bull$hit for the most part.
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Post by larrymoe on Nov 25, 2024 12:25:31 GMT -6
Name other loud successful black coaches.... If you like Kirby and not Deion then? Larry Moe's on record as disliking loudmouth coaches of all races and creeds (see PJ Fleck) I'm a wrestler. If you're going to run your mouth, you better be able to back it up or be accountable when you fail. Deion immediately points fingers because he's a self centered, gutless {censored}. Being loud is the cherry on the top. |
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